Drag, Weave

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Hey guys.  When im burning 7018 I use a weave motion.  Everyone I talk to says to just drag it.  When I drag it all I get is a rounded up bead.  It doesnt look like its penetrating at all and its not very wide.  When I weave it still doesnt look like some of your guys 7018 beads but it has decent width and uniform ripples.  What are you supposed to do with this rod?  Also with a 6010 and 6011  I weave those too, but im told to wip them.  with these 2 rods does it really matter is there weaved.  With a weave I can leave a pretty decent looking bead.ThanksTom
Reply:What size of rod, metal thickness and amp settings on the 7018 rod. Without seeing a picture I would quess that you may be running it a little cold. As for as the 6010 & 6011 the only time I "wip" is if I am welding uphill on 1/4" or thicker and need to keep the puddle from sagging. I weave or drag the 6010 & 6011 depending on the position and type of weld, downhill, fillett, lap etc. Hope this helps.Brentwelder
Reply:3/16 metal, 1/8 rod and anywhere from 115 to 125 DC-.  The only time I have problems is when dragging the rod.  When im weaving it goes pretty good.  I'll get a pick  sometime.  But theres 7018 and 9018 beads on it and I can't tell them apart anymore.
Reply:Your machine may run cold for a particular setting 99.  I agree with 22 on it sounds like too cold.  Try 10-15 more amps and see what happens.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:The welder at school is a lincoln 225/125 machine.  I have it turned all the way up most times..It leaves a pretty good bead like that but it undercuts on the sides.  Ill get a pic up soon.  I found some pieces that have 7018 passes and one with 6011 weave and whip
Reply:I agree that you may be running too cold, but pictures are worth a thousand words.  I use a slight weave when I run 7018.  as long as you don;t weave so much that the puddle cools off as you go from side to side you should be ok.  General rule is to never weave more than 3 times the rod width.  Post some pics, and keep at it.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:and stay away from that DC-. those rods are meant for DC+
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingI agree that you may be running too cold, but pictures are worth a thousand words.  I use a slight weave when I run 7018.  as long as you don;t weave so much that the puddle cools off as you go from side to side you should be ok.  General rule is to never weave more than 3 times the rod width.  Post some pics, and keep at it.
Reply:Originally Posted by El_Lloydeoand stay away from that DC-. those rods are meant for DC+
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadbut aint it true that when you weave you pause on the sides , and doesnt one side cool when you are [pausing on the other side? and isnt that  quite as lot like whipping, leaving the puddle to let it cool while maintaining the arc? only diff i see is that you're maintaining the arc on the other side depositing metal ..
Reply:Originally Posted by 99trxriderThe welder at school is a lincoln 225/125 machine.  I have it turned all the way up most times..It leaves a pretty good bead like that but it undercuts on the sides.  Ill get a pic up soon.  I found some pieces that have 7018 passes and one with 6011 weave and whip
Reply:Originally Posted by 99trxrider3/16 metal, 1/8 rod and anywhere from 115 to 125 DC-.  The only time I have problems is when dragging the rod.  When im weaving it goes pretty good.  I'll get a pick  sometime.  But theres 7018 and 9018 beads on it and I can't tell them apart anymore.
Reply:no, the 1amp per theory works out sometimes, but not always.  On a 1/8" 7018 I don't remember ever running one over 150 amps.  I normally run mine dead in about 130 amps.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:i think we are talking about manipulation vs. weaving. in most cases one might do a small movement which i consider just manipulation to maybe make a weld wet nice to the base metal. when i think of weaving i think of obvious transverse oscillation. this pic is what i consider a weave bead. manipulation is something i consider that i do with any puddle. whether it be movement of tungsten or whipping a 6010. Attached Images
Reply:OK, for us dummies out here - What is the difference between a weave and a whip?A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:id say a weave has transverse oscillation where a whip will be a longitudinal movement going back and forth.
Reply:With the 7018 im talking just a flat bead.  My verticals look better than my flat beads.  ive got pics but they arent good at all..ill get them up tomorrow
Reply:It was allready pointed out once, polarity would be pretty important if your striving for a simple no weave, oscillation or whatnot flat bead. With DC- your deposition rate is going to be higher with less dig into the material, so it would be natural that the bead stands up or has a Cold Look. The way I figure it your  weaving or smearing it around on the surface of the material and it lays down a little better but your still not digging into the base metal like you would with DC+ or even AC current. I'm still learnin' myself so I'll ask why DC-?? 7018 is my favorite rod and the one I use the most in my line of work and it's always DCEP for what we do.            One of the favorite pranks in the Apprentice Shop is to swap someones leads over in their booth while their out grinding a fresh plate  or whatnot. The instructors catch it quick just by the sound of the poor guys arc when he comes back to his booth.Miller ThunderBolt AC/DCMillermatic 130XPDewalt 4 1/2Dewalt RecipCE Chop Saw3rd Period Boilermaker ApprenticeLocal 454, Chattanooga TN
Reply:Originally Posted by 99trxriderHey guys.  When im burning 7018 I use a weave motion.  Everyone I talk to says to just drag it.  When I drag it all I get is a rounded up bead.  It doesnt look like its penetrating at all and its not very wide.  When I weave it still doesnt look like some of your guys 7018 beads but it has decent width and uniform ripples.  What are you supposed to do with this rod?  Also with a 6010 and 6011  I weave those too, but im told to wip them.  with these 2 rods does it really matter is there weaved.  With a weave I can leave a pretty decent looking bead.ThanksTom
Reply:Originally Posted by blue&grayIt was allready pointed out once, polarity would be pretty important if your striving for a simple no weave, oscillation or whatnot flat bead. With DC- your deposition rate is going to be higher with less dig into the material, so it would be natural that the bead stands up or has a Cold Look. The way I figure it your  weaving or smearing it around on the surface of the material and it lays down a little better but your still not digging into the base metal like you would with DC+ or even AC current. I'm still learnin' myself so I'll ask why DC-?? 7018 is my favorite rod and the one I use the most in my line of work and it's always DCEP for what we do.            One of the favorite pranks in the Apprentice Shop is to swap someones leads over in their booth while their out grinding a fresh plate  or whatnot. The instructors catch it quick just by the sound of the poor guys arc when he comes back to his booth.
Reply:The 7018 bead is the bead with the undercut.  The other is a 9018M rod.  There is also a pic of my 6011 weave and my first try at whipping.  Sorry for the poor pics.  my camera sucks.  I have to grab my Girlfriends camera sometime.ThanksTom Attached Images
Reply:In the first pic.  The top bead is the 7018 horizontal.  The last pic is the 6011.  Top bead is the weave and bottom is whip.
Reply:OK, for us dummies out here - What is the difference between a weave and a whip?
Reply:I dont whip the 7018.  I Just tried whipping the 6011 once.  How do those pics look?  I think the 9018 looks better than the 7018.  Ill be using my cousins welder soon so ill get some flat 7018 pics.
Reply:Don't even try to  run 7018 DCEN.  It doesn't run that way and was not designed to.  7018 is a short arc rod.  Keep the rod IN the puddle with as short of arc as you can.     This is why it can't be whipped.  9018 and 7018 should look about the same.  125 amps is a little light for 1/8" 7018 for me.  I like 130 to 140 depending on the brand of rod.  As you turn the heat up, you can run a shorter arc.  This makes the slag peel its self right off if the base metal is clean like it should be.  Just work on stringers at first.  Once you get them down using a short arc, start on the weave, but just a little bit, maybe one width of the rod.Post 21 Pic #1 top weld is terrible.  Try stringers.  If you can get the heat right, you will be able to feel the flux burn off as the rod inside burns off too. If the flux is burning off slower, turn up the heat a little more.  This is why they call it a drag rod.  I don't always run it that way, but on flat plate with no groove it works quite well.Lets try to work on ONE type of rod per thread, I get confused.  David Last edited by David R; 06-18-2009 at 07:55 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.I think your welds look very good for a beginner. But what I like even more is seeing someone as young as you are that knows what he wants to do in his life. Something tells me you are going to be a very good welder one day.
Reply:Thats pretty crazy that your instructor has you running DC-. If the machine just doesn't have the power to work DC+ on a 1/8 rod I would think a 3/32 rod would be the natural choice to be burning on that machine for practice reasons. Your welds look decent for just starting out. What the others said is so true, get the short arc long stringer down solid and the weaving/circles or whatnot comes pretty easy afterward, don't outrun the puddle and the slag will clean itself eventually.Miller ThunderBolt AC/DCMillermatic 130XPDewalt 4 1/2Dewalt RecipCE Chop Saw3rd Period Boilermaker ApprenticeLocal 454, Chattanooga TN
Reply:Thank you very much.  I love doing this.  I take pride in every weld I do.  Its one of the few things you can actaully do and be able to say you did all of it.  People can tell you what you can do to improve your welds, but you have to be able to do it first.  I dont even have a welder at my house.  I took my high schools semester long class my sophmore year. And then this last year, my junior year, I had a study hall during the welding class. So i would get a pass to the shop and bring my own rods and metal and use the welders there.  I only got 40 mins a day of welding.  I dont have enough power at my house to run a welder.  But im going to pay to have a bigger box put in this summer so i can get a welder and maybe start doing some welding.  I was thinking of gates for farmers and maybe so scaffolding (I think thats how you spell it).  I want to make my own trailer sometime too.  Thanks to everyone that has helped me on this site.  Ive only been coming around for about 2 weeks and ive already learned so much.Tom
Reply:Originally Posted by David RDon't even try to  run 7018 DCEN.  It doesn't run that way and was not designed to.  7018 is a short arc rod.  Keep the rod IN the puddle with as short of arc as you can.     This is why it can't be whipped.  9018 and 7018 should look about the same.  125 amps is a little light for 1/8" 7018 for me.  I like 130 to 140 depending on the brand of rod.  As you turn the heat up, you can run a shorter arc.  This makes the slag peel its self right off if the base metal is clean like it should be.  Just work on stringers at first.  Once you get them down using a short arc, start on the weave, but just a little bit, maybe one width of the rod.Post 21 Pic #1 top weld is terrible.  Try stringers.  If you can get the heat right, you will be able to feel the flux burn off as the rod inside burns off too. If the flux is burning off slower, turn up the heat a little more.  This is why they call it a drag rod.  I don't always run it that way, but on flat plate with no groove it works quite well.Lets try to work on ONE type of rod per thread, I get confused.  David
Reply:Originally Posted by David R7018 is a short arc rod.  Keep the rod IN the puddle with as short of arc as you can.
Reply:it'll what?
Reply:Originally Posted by loudnproudIf you give the 7018 just a bit of arc length, it'll wet it in better.
Reply:While we are on this...  I was using a 6013 the other day.  I've always heard it was a "contact" rod because you leave it in contact with the base metal.  But when I do, the slag builds up so fast and covers my rod tip and shorts.  What gives?
Reply:good rule to go by is half the diameter of the electrode rod is the correct arc length. too short of an arc length is not a good thing just like too long of an arc length is not a good thing.
Reply:When doing the whip motion, I have read that you swing it back and forth 1/4 to 1".  Does this break the arc, and you have to re-arc at the bottom of each swing?  I use the circle motion almost all the time.  Seems to me that the whip wouldn't get as deep of penetration.  Am I wrong about this?
Reply:i personally never whip that far. maybe forward 1/4"and back 1/8" and i only whip with f3 electrodes like 6010. i give a stringer bead zero manipulation, just the natural shake of my hand which isnt much. seems to work like a charm for me 100% of the time!
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingWhen doing the whip motion, I have read that you swing it back and forth 1/4 to 1".  Does this break the arc, and you have to re-arc at the bottom of each swing?  I use the circle motion almost all the time.  Seems to me that the whip wouldn't get as deep of penetration.  Am I wrong about this?
Reply:David thats beautiful.  I def. dont have enough heat.  Wish I would have known what they were supposed to look like before I went through 5 pds in 3 days thinking I had it down.  My slag was always really hard and never peeled itself up.
Reply:David is that a weave or a drag?