What is stronger stringers or weave

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Ok so I am wondering which is a  stronger weld or is there a difference ?So which is it stringers or weaves ?
Reply:Stringers
Reply:They should be equal, but I would also think there would be less chance of slag inclusions with a weave.
Reply:StringersMiller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:Define STRONGER?Impact resistance, yield strength, cyclic fatigue? what is stronger the oak or the willow? The oak is hard and will snap, the willow is plastic and will bend. Aluminum in aircraft is usually riveted because welded aluminum is hard and the HAZ brittle.
Reply:Originally Posted by JayOThey should be equal, but I would also think there would be less chance of slag inclusions with a weave.
Reply:Stringers, with stringers you get maximum penetration on each pass. If you look into AWS D1.1 it talks about split layers. there is a point where too much weave bead width won't pass code. Plus you need to keep good width to depth of penetration ratios. --Gol'
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardWrong: IMOThe act of the weave necessitates traveling over slag deposited on the previous weave.
Reply:The width of a bead has nothing to do with the strength of the deposited metal. However a weave bead usually results in a slower travel speed forward. The lower travel speed results in higher heat input into the base metal .The higher heat input can reduce impact strength in carbon steels. In addition high heat input can affect the corrosion resistance of other alloys. In the case of materials that have been heat treated to achieve certain mechanical properties, heat input can affect the properties of the base metal.In many cases impact strength is not a consideration and heat input is not controlled. In cases where that control is required then typically the control is done by controlling amperage, voltage, and travel speed forward.  Excessive bead width is one indicator of slower travel speed however a thick bead that is narrower can also put a great deal of heat into the base metal. In addition a thick narrow bead can lead to centerline cracking and is also prohibited in some codes.This is a subject that has been discussed extensively on various forums. One of the key factors to the soundness of the weld metal is the skill and ability of the welder. In some cases a welder has a problem making a sound weld with stringers because of poor bead placement that leads to deep grooves and valleys between beads. In other cases the weave bead is made with too much forward motion between each weave and the arc doesn't get a chance to melt all of the base metal underneath. If you see some big widely spaced ripples on the top, they are probably like that on the bottom.One other thing to consider is position. A slow travel speed forward either from weaving or a thick bead is fine vertical as far as soundness goes since the arc usually has the abaility to melt the base metal at the leading edge of the crater. In the flat position, too slow on the travel speed can result in non fusion since all of the energy is used heating that big puddle as opposed to melting the underlying base metal. http://weldingdata.com/pictures/LackOfFusion.JPGhttp://weldingdata.com/pictures/9235...cated_Beam.JPGMore often than not you will find restrictions placed on weave beads. Very seldom will you find restrictions placed on stringers.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Weave.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Neither Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWeave.....zap!
Reply:in wlding school they taught weaving the hot passes maybe it was only 1/2 inch ..they all passed . i wouldnt weave anymore than 1/2- 3/4 ....i guess it depends?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamlitNice looking welds Zap but were talking stick welding.
Reply:When I was in school the test plates done with stringers showed more distortion then the plates I did with a weave.  My teacher told me that running stringers in a test plate would generally be better pratice since most of the verticle welds out in the world would be run as stringers.  The other instructor (also a mechanical engineer) did various testing on A36 material with weave vs stringers and no diff in destructive testing.  He seemed to believe that "stringers were stronger than a weave" was more or less an old wise tail that just has been around since the beginning of arc welding. Of course he also stated that this does change once material changes then the wps should be followed.
Reply:Stringers have proven to have  less residual stress.Because of this, stringers cause more distortion and warpage. This is the reason for preset on the 2g in almost every weld procedure.As for actual tensile strength, there are alot of variables to consider. Material will be a major factor. How heat affects it's grain structure is a large consideration.Stringers often lead to finer grain structure, which in theory should give a higher tensile strength, and slightly lower ductility.
Reply:A weave heats the base metal more and the result is it cools slower.  Less chance to crack.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I was confused, because I never saw the SMAW listed anywhere...
Reply:Sidenote...As usual, your welds look great ZAP!
Reply:The maximum weave width allowable by our WPS's at work is 1/2".  About 75% of our welding is done with E71T-1M dualshield, the WPS qualified to ASME Section IX.
Reply:now were getting somewhere....
Reply:Weave ....For stick?   Stringers would make it easier for tests....right? weld it like you own it
Reply:According to the inspecter here when testing for your ticket, If you start to weave at all on your coupon you are going home without a pass. It is OK to weave a top or cover but not for any other part of the test. I was always taught stringers were stronger.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:At what point does a stringer become a weave? Think about it I know when sometimes when welding you use a tiny bit of manipulation back and forth when running a strait stringer. Does this make it a weave? --Gol'
Reply:I have never seen a clear defiinition. I have seen bead width addressed by codes and travel speed addressed by procedures but controlling the width of the electrode manipiulation is a big variable.I for one have to wiggle a little to get a vertical 7018, 71T1, or 70S-X weld to flatted.The only reference to weave width I have ever seen is in t he material specification for filler metals. In those specifications specific restrictions aree placed upon how the metal is deposited for tests.AWS D1.1 for example limits the maximum bead width to 5/8" for flat welds for some processes when using a prequaified procedure. That sam code places no restriction on bead width for vertical SMAW. However other requirement may prohibit the width based upon heat input.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/Originally Posted by Go1lumAt what point does a stringer become a weave? Think about it I know when sometimes when welding you use a tiny bit of manipulation back and forth when running a strait stringer. Does this make it a weave?
Reply:I always figured stringers were stronger just beacause thats how a lot of testing is done.As Go1lum asked about when does a stringer become a weave..   That would be nice to know.  What defines a weave or stringer bead ?
Reply:AWS D1.1 Says weave bead. A type of weld bead made with transverseoscillation.stringer bead. A type of weld bead made without appreciableweaving motion.ASME SEC IX Says weave bead: for a manual or semiautomatic process, a weldbead formed using weaving. See also oscillation.stringer bead: a weld bead formed without appreciableweaving.Appreciable is the key I would think.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:I passed the 3G, the top pass of 3 had to be a 3/8 to 1/2" weave.  .045 wire and Co2.  Root and face bend. It works for me.In school they told me 3x the rod width.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Newfie_1986I always figured stringers were stronger just beacause thats how a lot of testing is done.As Go1lum asked about when does a stringer become a weave..   That would be nice to know.  What defines a weave or stringer bead ?
Reply:It is in my opinion easier to run weaves than stringers. If I am starting someone one vertical and having a hard time on getting them to see whats happening that is causing the bead to sag , I have them weave wider and then slowly narrow it up some.To do both well requires skill. Making a consistent weave around a pipe where you can't tell the bottom from the top or sides is pretty impressive. This requires a great deal of skill with SMAW and even other processes.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:If I have 1 in plate to mate double beveled horizontal, then stringers it is with no weave. Matter of fact I don't weave when stringers will do. Then I mig 3/4 together in two passes.  But wait, isn't a 3 pass vertical a weave? or is it a lot of short vertical stringers? As for when a stringer becomes a weave? When you move side to side more than half the size of the rod less the flux covering. All in all stringers are preferred from what I know. I know Jack S, met him in Vegas last year.Last edited by Fred Paul Jones; 11-17-2008 at 11:58 PM.
Reply:it's all about your joules. heat input in inches per minute or something like that. I never saw the need to weave stick unless vertical or welding gaps.I dont weave mig at al in any position. I consider a weave to be when either of your weld puddle edges cool off before traveling forward. If you're just rocking back and forth while maintaining a molten puddle I wouldn't consider that a weave. I think that is just manipulating the puddle because you're never really going in and out.
Reply:As mentioned before weaves are risky.  A rough guideline I had passed to me was no more than four times the diameter of the welding rod, flux included.   As one can see big wide weaves invite dimensional problems such as concave fillet welds which inspectors regularly reject.
Reply:weaves are more fun
Reply:As mentioned previously, the reason that weaving is limited by code and engineering is to prevent excessive heat input can lead to excessive grain growth and degradation of properties in many high strength steels.
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumStringers, with stringers you get maximum penetration on each pass. If you look into AWS D1.1 it talks about split layers. there is a point where too much weave bead width won't pass code. Plus you need to keep good width to depth of penetration ratios.
Reply:I can go along with Gaustin's answer also.  Although a weave and a stringer may both pass a bend test, keep in mind that a tensile test is a different animal.  Also keep in mind that the typical tensile test is done by pulling each welded member, with the weld area in the middle.  If the tensile test included ONLY weld material, you would likely find that the weaved filler was weaker due to grain structure (caused by increase heat input).I recently welded on some 10" heavy wall pipe for a steam plant.  It was a high chrome material that had to be welded with 8018 B3L filler (if my memory is right).  The wall thickness was something like 3".  They wouldn't allow a weave.  It had to be stringers, even though they were stress-relieving the welds afterwards.
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCYou can't make a weave pass with sufficient penetration???? Come on.What exactly (and where) does it say about "split layers"?At what "point" will a weave no longer comply with D1.1?"Width to depth of penetration", where do you find this? I eagerly sit with D1.1 in hand.gaustin gave the technically correct answer, everything else here is old wives tales.JTMcC.
Reply:I agree with Go1lum that stringers result in a higher quality weld and is acceptible more often than not. Fire it up or go home!
Reply:The strength of any weld is largely influenced by its cooling rate, which has been said several times in this string.  The cooling rate of the stringer bead is much faster and therefore the grains are much smaller than for a weaved weld. However the cooling rate also has an effect on the HAZ which is often the weakest part of the weld.  Due to the faster cooling rates of the stringer weld, there is less heat available for the growth of a HAZ, and so the HAZ of the stringer weld is narrower, giving a smaller "weaker" area and a stronger weld.And there are other mechanical properties to consider in addition to what has previously been discussed.  Stringer welds will generally be harder, less ductile and more creep resistant than weaved. I don't know about corrosion resistance or fatigue behaviour.
Reply:well, at the school i have 3 welding teachers and 2 of them only want to see stringer, the other one say that weaving is better. I guess they are both good, but i find that weaving is easier in 3G stick weldingBTW hello everyone, i'm new here Last edited by MetalDG; 11-11-2011 at 02:50 AM.
Reply:stringers can be deposited too far apart leaving deep valleys..1/3 to 1/2 overlap and the valleys disappear..ive seen both but never liked how the valleys looked.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadstringers can be deposited too far apart leaving deep valleys..1/3 to 1/2 overlap and the valleys disappear..ive seen both but never liked how the valleys looked.
Reply:I deal with critical high pressure steam lines from 2 1/4% chromoly, different classes of inconel or hastalloy, mild steel, stainless. On all heavy wall pipe no matter the position i weave from my hotpass out. I of course dont get ridiculious with my weave but iam not afraid to make'r 1/2" to 5/8" wide. This does produce a flatter surface for your next pass, and almost entirely eliminates any chance of slag inclusions. As stated previously, your moving at a slower rate garunteeing penetration into the last pass and base material, your keeping the puddle more fluid for longer so it does allow the chance to float any slag (which their shouldnt be anyway) to the surface, ALSO allows for a slower cool down which dosent matter most times in my case because i have ceramic heat blankets keep the pipe to temp then theirs generally a minimum 10hr post heat treatment process on most piping. During exposed steam line welding ( lines in the plant exposed to public ) i have two boiler inspectors, and one xray technician looking over my shoulder, testing EVERY single pass with dye pen or mag partical, generally because the wall is so thick it dosent make sense to weld it all out and then have to cut 1" or deeper to repair a small issue. In my years at the plant ive passed to date 350 xrays and ive weaved since day one. Again everyone has their own way, but these are 2 out of 5 of my pressure tickets during test day, both are ready and waiting for cap's. one is 2 1/4% chromoly, and the other is hastalloy. Attached ImagesLast edited by Pressure_Welder; 11-11-2011 at 10:57 AM.
Reply:hey pressure_welder just out of curiosity do you run a full width weave on the cap for those 6g
Reply:Hello Newfie_1986, as you have likely seen by the number and variety of responses to your question, there is only a correct answer when you take into consideration a lot of specifics. Codes in general are almost mum on how they describe limitations on bead width. Depth to width ratio, thickness limitation of a weld pass, keeping pass width narrow enough to prevent welding over solidified slag, terms and descriptions such as these are what codes might use to describe what they dictate or consider to describe bead width limitations. Whether you are of the mind that a weave is better or a stringer is better is sometimes immaterial, the WPS(welding procedure specification) will generally provide the welder with the necessary recipe to utilize the correct welding technique and application and if the welder decides to vary from this they might possibly get their walking papers or cut it out and do it correctly. Many materials are very tolerant of varying degrees of heat input, time at temperature can be a very important factor when considering bead width. If a particular material is susceptible to extreme metallurgical changes from elevated temperatures over longer periods of time then a weave might not be a good choice for a welding technique. Welding procedures can be of a great deal of importance when welding many of the variety of different types and grades of metals. A clean weld joint lacking impurities, voids, and other discontinuities doesn't always insure that it is a sound weld. Weld interface describes where the weld metal meets the parent metal, sometimes this area is where the weld fails. Usually due to overheating and changing the properties of the parent metal. The metallurgical characteristics of the parent material needs to be taken into account. Grade A-36 steel deals very well with all sorts of different welding and heating abuses without suffering much. On the other hand, if you are welding 4140 steel you had better follow all of the pertinent procedures and requirements unless you are prepared to replace the parts or go through a possibly much more lengthy repair process. A few more thoughts for consideration. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:DR87 - On our caps during any sort of pressure weld in the plant, or testing situation we arent allowed to run a full width cap as it generally does exceed even my limits of a weave width. My 6010/7018 sch 160 pipes would be a breeze to weave if allowed, but the tig rooted pipes are getting a little too wide. SO what i do is i still weave my caps essentially. For instance with my F3/F4 i will weave 3/4's of the bevel and bring my weave just to the top of the bevel and kiss it so it burns away and leaves undercut. Sounds crazy but i want that undercut to define exactly where the top bevel is. I then take a used 1/4" grinding disc with a nice rounded edge and i grind about 1/4 of the way into my weave and i just catch the edge of that "undercut" i left and leave a perfect u shaped groove perfect for a fast hot stringer. See the thing is weaving dosent always mean your hanging out in the joint forever, i run about 93amps with my 3/32 7018 and or 9018-b3 so iam moving up the joint fast leaving a flat surface, definatly not as fast as a stringer but id say atleast 3/4's as fast. As posted above its all about monitoring your interpass temps, i always have my helper with an electronic heat gun by my side to let me know when were getting close and need a cool down peroid.
Reply:Pressure_Welder I'm pretty sure I can visualize what you're saying, but if you think about it, next time you do this can you take a picture and post it?Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPPressure_Welder I'm pretty sure I can visualize what you're saying, but if you think about it, next time you do this can you take a picture and post it?