new welding machine thats pretty neat

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ok i will start off by saying that im an old fashion type of welder when it comes to teaching someone how to weld but, when i was browsing last night on you tube i found what seems to be in my opinion probably the best training and hoaning tools ever invented.  the machine called the vrtex360 will let you weld with just about any process and any position posibly.  this is a must see for all the serious welders and hobbiest.  go to www.vrtex360.com and check it out then post back and let me know wat yall think i promise yall will all be amazed!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldinglead19the machine called the vrtex360 will let you weld with just about any process and any position posibly.  this is a must see for all the serious welders and hobbiest.
Reply:I weld in that position every day!!
Reply:i do other things in that position but not weld
Reply:I MISSED THAT SCHOOL Went to old fashon school of hard knocks. Wow the world is going to fast lol.  Cool machine anyways. But hard to cover everything in the real world.                              Thank you for showing     VernonHomemade Belt Sander "LINK"http://s795.photobucket.com/albums/y...Belt%20Sander/
Reply:doesn't look like spam its on the lincoln electric site._______________________OF COURSE I DON'T LOOK BUSY... I DID IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME
Reply:looks pretty neat, but I can tell by the pictures that it won't teach you one very important lesson...You got to respect the heat!  Look at where that guy's elbow is.  It looks like he's coloring or something..Now add a little spatter & some 600 degree parts & it might just work!Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:looks pretty cool to me.. could easily be a very fast jump start for beginners.. be cool if they market it like an xbox or wii, i would buy it for sure, if i could afford it...  you could buy different skill levels as you progress.. mig, tig and stick, wow this could be some hardcore training, just think a vitual inspector checking in on your work from time to time and giving you points and such, increasing your skill level as you progress..  as detailed as video games have gotten i would think it could be a darn good training tool, and even fun...  the possibilities are endless...tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:That is coolMaxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:I can appreciate the technological aspect but I don't see much advantage over actually welding. I find the consequence of having to clean up my mistakes aides in learning.
Reply:When it can give you virtual spark burns on sun burn your arms, and chip off the virtual flux and catch a hottie just below the eye, then it can be a useful training tool!!!! Just another kids video game!!!CR
Reply:i think the point is it allows them to waste virtual tungsten, argon, and rods until they can make a decent "bead"and then after those dozens if not hundreds of hours of practice, they can apply these inexpensive basics to real welding where they get to learn about burning themselves
Reply:Originally Posted by Taideni think the point is it allows them to waste virtual tungsten, argon, and rods until they can make a decent "bead"and then after those dozens if not hundreds of hours of practice, they can apply these inexpensive basics to real welding where they get to learn about burning themselves
Reply:i dont think that's a fair comparison. i think a fair comparison is learning to fly from a flight simulator, and my understanding is student pilots use them all the time.of course a virtual bead won't be identical to a real bead, but it seems to me a student could learn things like consistency of movement, torch angle, and arc gap with this unit. Once those skills have been learned, they can then be applied to real welding without all the unnecessary expense of tungsten, argon, grinding wheels etc etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by Taideni dont think that's a fair comparison. i think a fair comparison is learning to fly from a flight simulator, and my understanding is student pilots use them all the time.of course a virtual bead won't be identical to a real bead, but it seems to me a student could learn things like consistency of movement, torch angle, and arc gap with this unit. Once those skills have been learned, they can then be applied to real welding without all the unnecessary expense of tungsten, argon, grinding wheels etc etc.
Reply:I used one of these earlier this year at the Offshore Technologies Conference in houston and I agree with above its pretty cool and I would buy it if they made it for a ps3 or a wii,but its just not the same as the real deal.
Reply:I've used the Lincoln machine before, and in certain applications, it does more than you guys give it credit for.  You can set it up for real time feedback to correct rod/gun angle, stickout, etc.  If your real world weld has problems in a given area, running one on the simulator will actually assess that to show you what you're doing wrong.  The virtual hood they give you provides audio feedback, so you can hear when you blow through a root pass, voltage is low, etc.  With stick, the "rod" moves back through the stinger, so you actually "burn" rod as you go.  The GMAW portion I felt was VERY realistic, the rutile based rods were so/so, and the cellulose rods less so when welding an open root joint, as nothing replaces the feel of a keyhole, even with sound and visual cues.One thing to keep in mind is that this unit isn't for the average guy to slap in his garage.  Look at what a union hall, construction site, or educational institution go through every year in gas, coupon, and consumable cost.  When weeding out the guys who are completely blowing smoke up your *** in regards to their welding abilities, training someone who's completely green, or you have a student with problems but only one instructor to cover a class of 20+ people, it's easy to see the benefits and cost savings of a machine like that.
Reply:it is a neat machine, our college has bought one. i tried it out with stick, the virtual helmet takes some getting used to as you cannot see where your hands are, i would not use this as a substitute for actual welding, the welders have to use the actual process to learn but it is ok to use for beginners just starting out to get a feel for welding, the machine we have does stick and mig and has a military software installed so the virtual environment is in a desert military compound. the first time i tried it i did a stick vertical, and got an 84%, the stick electrode actualy vibrated in my hand and there are speakers with the sound of welding. the issue i has with the stick is, as the rod was moving through the holder if you did not place the holder away from your body the stick would hit you, disrupting the weld, i found the mig much better but again this cannot replace actual welding, at some point the student has to weld with the real thingSteve Hot Rod HooliganMiller Maxstar 200 STRCampbell Housfeld Flux Core 80
Reply:Lame attempt at advancement.  Nothing compares to burning rods and wire for hours on end.Lots of toys.
Reply:I guess I can't understand why there are people saying it's complete garbage. When I first starting TIG welding I would start with a good torch angle, and then slowwwly move to about 45*. It was a terrible habit, and I wasted a decent amount of money on that one bad habit. If a 'computer game' could have virtually slapped my wrist every time I got lazy on the torch, I would have saved some good money and learned faster. Apply this to a school / training facility where you have maybe hundreds of new guys coming through the shop every year, and I can see this saving a lot of money and teaching the basics before they go burning up consumables.
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenI guess I can't understand why there are people saying it's complete garbage. When I first starting TIG welding I would start with a good torch angle, and then slowwwly move to about 45*. It was a terrible habit, and I wasted a decent amount of money on that one bad habit. If a 'computer game' could have virtually slapped my wrist every time I got lazy on the torch, I would have saved some good money and learned faster. Apply this to a school / training facility where you have maybe hundreds of new guys coming through the shop every year, and I can see this saving a lot of money and teaching the basics before they go burning up consumables.
Reply:just like i've stated in other posts, welding is going to advance alot over the next 10yrs...  geez look,  people have cnc plasma's at their home garages, who would have thought that 10yrs ago...  lazer cutters, waterjets, wow.... the welding market is getting very competitive, i think its going to help the industry as a whole...  future so bright, you gotta wear shades.. the machine shop i use to work at, just odered 4 prototrak mills..  might as well call them manual machines with pure cnc capabilities...  they have scanners, load a print, scan it, it writes a program for you.. tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by ny_racer_xxxOr you could have the old German that taught me how to tig SS slap you on wrist every time I had a bad torch angle!CR
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenThat would be best, yes, but not the most economical for a large shop/school which is where this setup would be used.
Reply:So going from nothing to the welding process is better than going from something similar to the welding process?No offense... but is this a case of old dog and new tricks?Originally Posted by TaidenSo going from nothing to the welding process is better than going from something similar to the welding process?No offense... but is this a case of old dog and new tricks?
Reply:Let's bring the price down for the average Joe..........Wii Welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by ny_racer_xxxIt's demo gig, and nothing replaces the actual thing period!
Reply:I think the machine has merit. Will it replace real world learning? No. But it could save alot of money for schools for entry level students. Once the student has an understanding of torch angle, travel speed, WSO, etc. they could move on to hundreds of hours of actual welding. My $.02.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:If I never saw a bicycle in my life, and a video told me what the brake levers, pedals, seat, and gear shifters do then yes. I would learn something from it, and would save time looking at the thing trying to figure out what everything does. I would also know not to grab a handful of the front brake lever sending me to the ER for a new face.So the answer is yes, a video would have merit for someone learning how to ride a bicycle. If a place was training hundreds of people a year to learn how to ride a bicycle, a video would be a smart choice.I hope you all understand that I'm not saying this replaces learning from welding. I'm saying in the beginning, I can see how it would be an economical solution to teaching the basics... THEN they can introduce real welding where the education will continue.
Reply:It may not help us old dogs who are so hard headed and set in our ways but I could see it helping people like my daughter who has grown up in a virtual world and is use to making a transition from what she sees on a video or computer screen and appling it to her real life.Last edited by monte433; 11-29-2010 at 10:49 AM.Reason: spellingMiller 180
Reply:I could see this moving into a lot of schools to lower the cost and aid the 1 teacher to 20 students for the first week or two. the students could learn a good amount from this i feel, work angle, electrode stick out, ect ect. but They will not learn how to weld in full affect until they start burning away.
Reply:Originally Posted by barefooter14I could see this moving into a lot of schools to lower the cost and aid the 1 teacher to 20 students for the first week or two. the students could learn a good amount from this i feel, work angle, electrode stick out, ect ect. but They will not learn how to weld in full affect until they start burning away.
Reply:As a corporate pilot at has learned to fly in 30 million dollar simulators, this is not gonna work. First off we never teach day on in a simulator, is includes the air force and the army, both of which i have worked for or with.  Simulators are only used to teach new skills to someone with enou base to understand that the simulator is just that.  The worst pilots i have ever seen were msflightsim wana be's or those that had experiences from other than instructors.What does this thing do, what has been happening for 20 years, removing actual hands on learning of skills and replacing it with computer simulators, because the real thing is too prone to a lawsuit when someone gets there pretty face burned or a spark lands on their new pumas.  Litigation and lawyers have brought this crap around, and have killed our kids chance to learn with real machines.Last edited by n20junkie; 11-29-2010 at 03:27 PM.Syncrowave 350Coolmate 3Millermatic 251Spoolmatic 30A
Reply:Originally Posted by n20junkieAs a corporate pilot at has learned to fly in 30 million dollar simulators, this is not gonna work. First off we never teach day on in a simulator, is includes the air force and the army, both of which i have worked for or with.  Simulators are only used to teach new skills to someone with enou base to understand that the simulator is just that.  The worst pilots i have ever seen were msflightsim wana be's or those that had experiences from other than instructors.What does this thing do, what has been happening for 20 years, removing actual hands on learning of skills and replacing it with computer simulators, because the real thing is too prone to a lawsuit when someone gets there pretty face burned or a spark lands on their new pumas.  Litigation and lawyers have brought this crap around, and have killed our kids chance to learn with real machines.