Wife Causing Trouble...

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Well my wife decided that it was time for me to make money with the tools I keep buying, and posted that I would do welding in my area for cash or possible trades on Craigslist.  Anyway, I have somebody wanting me to make them ramp storage for their trailer.  The thing I need to know is how to figure up what to charge, per hour or for the total work.  I don't have a clue what the average pay is, and I don't have the years of experience to charge a premium.  I was hoping to just do some basic side jobs while I grow my skills.  I guess my question is...how much should I charge per hour, or should I give a quote for the whole job?  Also, what kinds of warranties or such do you offer if any.  What do you do to cover your butt in case the thing you are trying to weld gets messed up such as a delicate part or whatever?  I know i am a beginner so please don't be too harsh on me.  I don't plan on taking any jobs that would be a safety issue, not until I get more experience anyway, but just from word of mouth I have 3 customers.  So I want to learn the ins and outs.My Babies:MillerMatic 185Thermal Arc 300SHobart StickMate AC/DC 235/160Dalex Werke Spot WelderOh and the wife and kids are important too!
Reply:Something small you would probably be better off to charge by the job.  You should give a warranty an any of your work, if the failure was due to workmanship.  What kind of delicate stuff are you talking about?DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:Charge by the job, charging by the hour at this point , you may feel rushed, or your charge per hour may have to be low and they can be harder raise than kids....past work toys; lathes,mills, drills, saws,  robots, lasers ironworker, shears, brake, press, grinders, tensile tester,  torches, tigs, migs, sticks, platten table, positioner,  plasmas , gleeble and spot. Retired June 30, 2009.
Reply:Originally Posted by wesdavidsonCharge by the job, charging by the hour at this point , you may feel rushed, or your charge per hour may have to be low and they can be harder raise than kids....
Reply:Good fortune to you.  This is an avenue I will be taking in the near future.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Do you currently have a full time job or do you want to make this your fulltime job or a sideline?Because your best route may be to work as a helper first or even in a machine shop where you could do alot of general repairs This may be abit negative but you have to remember the reason for alot of technical and journeyman certifications was to stop this business of backyard tradesman doing halfaxxed work.I don't recommend it because of liability and a lack of knowledge.
Reply:That is great.  Every time I bought a welder my wife complained.  I am now single and have a LOT of welders.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I am so very lucky. Whenever I buy something, my wife never asks me "how much?". Occasionally she will ask "What does it do?"..."We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. "   - Oscar WildeMaxstar STL150Eagle CPM30 Bender
Reply:I guess I have a problem with charging someone for your "on the job training".It's one thing to tell a friend that you'll do a job for the cost of consumables and "a case of beer, etc. etc", but it's another thing when you'e acting like a business.Once you've developed a degree of proficiency, you'll have a better idea of how long a particular task should take (because you've done it before).  At that time you have a better idea of how to price your work.This particular job, storage ramps on a trailer, doesn't seem like a big deal.  What happens when a weld fails and the ramp is discharged out the back of the trailer into oncoming traffic.  I guess what I'm saying is that you need to be very careful of the types of jobs you take on until you know what you're doing.  Things that go over the road and may present a hazard to others is not where I'd recommend developing proficiency.  In a shop, under the supervision of an experienced welder, is where this skill is developed.I guess I'm a little overly sensitive to this issue as I spend a fair amount of time repairing other's mistakes (generally rookies).  I'll give a classic example.  I just built an aluminum support rack for a fire suppression system system we're installing on a trawler in our yard.  Yesterday was the first time the owner had seen the project.  He must have been impressed.  His comment was, "Wow, that looks great.  Didn't know you guys did that type of work.  Got something else I need you to look at".From the engine room we proceeded to the bridge of the boat where he showed me a broken stainless steel handrail.  Said a friend had broken it when he fell overboard (at the dock, thank goodness).  Told him that he's lucky it was a good friend because anyone else would have probably sued him for all he's worth.  What I found was that some idiot had tried to "reinforce the factory welds, several of which had started to fail".  This bozo had tried to mig the stainless joints with mild steel wire.  Nearly all of them had rusted and are starting to fail.   Now all that crap is going to have to be ground out and the railings rewelded properly with tig and 316 filler.  What would have been a $500-$600 repair has now turned into a $1,500+ project.The point I'm trying to make here is that.  If you can't do the job right (and you're sure of it) just don't take the project on.  Understand your limitations and work within them.  When you charge for a job, no matter how much, the customer WILL hold you accountable.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:some is alaways tryin to get a freebie outa me as well but my generosity goes so far the best advice i can give you is try this website www.welding tips and tricks.com go to start a welding biz and read up on it lots of good information heres a tip make some busniess cards as well and give a few out to freinds
Reply:Ok, lets set the record straight, somehow this got construed into a topic about welding skills and not about the orignal question I asked.  I am a certified welder, that is what I do at the company I work for.  Somehow I was misunderstood in my question.  The company I work for does alot of welding, but it is mostly for "in house" products, not personal requests.  The in-house weld inspector / person who certifies all of the welders here, is the first person to suggest that I "put a sign up in my front yard" to start doing welding on the side.  He is responsible for passing all  the welds done at this company and if they fail the company could easily be sued.  The things we make often are placed in fuel tanks and other containers with explosive or corrosive materials. Many are put in Naval ships (I will take some pictures when I get a chance)  Anyway, that guy sees everything I weld and still feels that I should do it on the side also.  The other welders here say the same thing.  My "on the job training" wasn't so much as learning to weld on the job, but more about learning to run a side business possibly leading towards a full time shop.  Since the company I work for doesn't do work for people off the street, I don't have much experience in figuring out how to charge people or even what the going rate is.   I wasn't asking for any "freebies" whatever that means.  Just a simple question.  Do I charge by the hour, or should I charge by the job, and if I charge by the hour, what is the going rate?My other question was just that I was wanting to know if you guys have insurance for such instances where something you are welding gets messed up or if you write a contract before hand if you know the object you are welding is "iffy" and you know going into it that it might hurt it more than help it.My Babies:MillerMatic 185Thermal Arc 300SHobart StickMate AC/DC 235/160Dalex Werke Spot WelderOh and the wife and kids are important too!
Reply:If you're not incorporated, don't even think about touching anything "iffy."  There is nothing you can put in writing that will save you.  In fact, I wouldn't touch anything structural or load-bearing in any way.
Reply:Wife Causing Trouble...Every time I read the title of this thread, I get the shakes. 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Okay well that clarifies things, the way I have done it when I operated my own company was to get the cost of materials(metals), consummables, gases, and sundry materials so you know what your cost is for this stuff, then go over to other costs like utilities, mobile(+ insurance), on a yearly basis then break it down to a monthly rate, then what you would expect to make yearly if you begin your company, and remember it may not be so good especially what the american economy is like and what the Alberta oilpatch is doing etc. And from that compute the hourly cost.And what I have found is their are alot of tradesmen that do not charge as much as they could get for work they do, and remember to always suggest ways of doing things and be a salesman and upsell whereever you can.Charge for incidentals nuts bolts washers lubricant perhaps as a percentage..
Reply:I usually charge by the job.  For customers who ask me how much something might cost over the phone or email, I tell them I have to see it, preferably in person, but sometimes a picture will do,  to give them a price. If they still want to know more, I tell them my hourly rate.  If I go to look at the job, I can give them an estimate for the total cost, if I know about how much the materials will be.  If I have to call the metal yard and/or hardware store for all the materials pricing, then I call the customer back later with the estimate.   On repair jobs, I can usually give them the price and do the job right then if it doesn't involve me going to buy materials.  On fabrication projects, especially complicated ones, I have to spend some time putting together the estimate and get back with them later.Charging by the job is usually much easier for the customer to deal with.   If you charge by the hour, the customer always wants to know exactly how long it will take, which brings you back to what the customer really wants to know and that is, what is the total cost going to be.    Just give the customer the total cost up front and then the customer won't worry about the time as much.   The customer will want to know about how many days a fabrication project might take, but won't be counting the hours and minutes if you charge by the job.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Charge by the job for the most part.But that charge has within it your hourly labor cost and the materials and the overhead and so forth. And, if you touch it then you are IT!  From a liability standpoint.  Which means you really should be some sort of corporation in order to shield your personal life/assets from the business assets/liabilities.  And it also means you should have liability insurance.Legal advise and contracts and such?  Talk to a lawyer.  If you "put up a sign on the front yard", then you are a business (or trying to be one).  And that means paperwork and insurance and taxes and so on.Legally, from a liability standpoint if you touch it then you are IT.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Yes the freakin price of steel is going to outrun aluminum soon!
Reply:Originally Posted by artworksmetalI am so very lucky. Whenever I buy something, my wife never asks me "how much?". Occasionally she will ask "What does it do?"...
Reply:Originally Posted by artworksmetalI am so very lucky. Whenever I buy something, my wife never asks me "how much?". Occasionally she will ask "What does it do?"...
Reply:check out this thread, there's some good advice there, and a post I put together with my philosophy on starting a welding business.  My reply is #6 in the thread linked to below...http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=26777Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:This whole scenerio sounds like a bomb waiting to go off.Your wife could get you in way over your head.The only way to charge IS BYTHE HOUR PERIOD!!!! It is fair to the customer and fair to you.The time starts when you leave your shop on a job away from your shop. You DO NOT bid jobs!!!You have no idea what mess you can get into.You need a clear agreement with the customer, or their will be law suits and  resentment.You need to decide if you will do all work in your shop or if you will do portable jobs too.Each thing requires certain tools some are the same and some tools will be just for portability.If a person is hiring you on Craigslist they may expect you to do the work for a lower wage than is reasonable.If you make a gate does that include installation and painting? What about electric gates?If a contractor is installing the gate will you work for the contractor or the owner?I personally feel that you are not ready for this yet. And  you need to get the stuff with your wife straightened out first. What if you told your wife you got her some jobs doing wallpaper or ironing or whatever?Sounds like a mess, and those customers may be a lot tougher than your wife. They will eat you alive if you do not have your !!##$$ together.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Bid the jobs for the entire job.  You still need to figure out your hourly rate, materials, overhead, profit, etc. to do the work, but this way the customer knows up front what the bill will be and you can relieve yourself of the time constraint stress.  Keep track of your time and everything else so when you are done you have an accurate record to help with future estimates and to remind you where you went wrong and what came out right.  Even with informal jobs make sure you are clear to your customer what you will do for the price and any deviations need to be negotiated and agreed upon before additional work is done.
Reply:I charge by the hour, with a estimate of roughly how long it will take give or take a couple hours.i price the steel and tell them how much it is and how much i charge to get it.  and i encourage them to find their own steel.  just give them a list, let them do the running around.i warranty my work within reason, i joke with them it has a lifetime warranty as long as i'm alive i will fix it.  i haven't had to warranty a job yet.  but some jobs you just can't give warranty especially if they are being cheap and want a band aid fix.My three pieces of advise are as follows1 - get your wife to do paper work, let her price materials and consumables.     and handle invoicing or payments.  then she tends not to bitch as much.2 - It is better to lose a job for being to expensive, then to lower your price and lose your shirt or work     for free.3 - welding is a trade, and not everybody has training or access to equipment.  lay down nice beads so      when someone looks at it they see your professional abilities.  and remember if they could "weld"     then they would not be coming to you.just my 2 cents and i hope it helps
Reply:I have some fab jobs that I bid by the job in my shop and I only use them for filler work. I have a tendency to go overboard on perfectionism around the shop. I also stop and scratch my head a lot as well.On repair jobs both at the shop and mobile I charge $100 per hr and have for about 5 years now. I only do aluminum.Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:I never purchased liability insurance for a business but a friend of mind told me it is expensive. $5000.00 a year or so for a million dollar coverage.Thats  $416.00 a month with no down payment.Electricity,consumables,gas,material ect. But If I were you I would go check on insurance if you plan to do for it!If you concieve and believe you will achieve! Good luck!Originally Posted by Road WarriorI had a She would say something stupid every 3 or 4 months