Welding on the cheap: Argon vs. flux core?

admin

Hi im a college student and i have been welding for just over 3 months. Im interested in buying a new welder and before i limit it down to brand and model i was curious about the benefits of using argon vs. flux core. And what are the cost differences. Also if you are willing to make suggestions for a nice little mig (gas or flux) i would really appreciate it.
Reply:Found a cool little page. Helped allot. Still open to suggestions.http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...sfluxcored.asp
Reply:Flux core wire costs 5x more than plain steel wire.  But a tank will cost you about $150-200, and then you're going to need to refill it.  The cheap flux-core-only machines are cheaper than the cheap MIG machines.Do you have access to 240V?
Reply:Not as of right now, i was however considering setting up 240. Im not sure of the likelyhood of that though. It would be much more practical for me to use 120. But i haven’t fully considered what i will be using it for. Mainly exhaust, cheap automotive repair and race preparation. Chassis stitching, welding up strut tower braces. Ect ect.EDIT: is going to 240v worth it?
Reply:Try hard wire and Co2. you can find Co2 bottles at flea markets and such. They are usually 20 # though. To fill a large Co2 bottle cost me $19 and because it comes half full of liquid and makes it's gas as it boils, it outlasts a mix gas by a lot.
Reply:Where are you going to be doing your welding? Inside go with co2 or mixed gas, wire sizes(10lb and 22 lbs) are supposed to be tied into relative tank sizes and about the time you empty a spool you should be close to changing tanks out with your LWS.
Reply:An 8" 10-lb roll of fluxcore E71T-11 is about $45 and an 8" roll of solid wire ER70S-6 is about $40, around here, if you buy at Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.  You can get wire for more or less at the local welding supply and more types of wire than what you find at the hardware store.If you're welding outside, definately choose the self shielding fluxcore wire.   If you're inside the shop, then solid wire and gas is fine.  I prefer 85/15 Ar/CO2, but 75/25 and pure CO2 work good too.   If you're going to be moving the machine around alot taking it here and there, fluxcore is alot more convenient than bringing a gas bottle along and finding someplace to keep it safe from falling over while working.  Inside a shop this isn't an issue, just put the welder and bottle together on a cart with wheels and all is well.On the machine, definately get one that has the gas valve.  Even if you may think you're only going to use fluxcore now, you may change your mind in the future.   Most migs truely worth buying have the gas valve in them anyways.  Only the cheapest are fluxcore-only.If you want to run it mostly on 110v but will be getting 220v in the future, there are dual-voltage machines that you can run on either.  The Millermatic 211 and Millermatic Passport are both dual-voltage machines.  Both are excellent welders on both fluxcore and solid + gas.   The Passport is lighter, tougher, has the sweetest arc of any small mig welder made, and even has it's own little CO2 bottle inside so you can weld with solid wire and C02 and not bring along a full size tank.   It lasts for about one fab project, or a few small repairs.http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.phpMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by BobTry hard wire and Co2. you can find Co2 bottles at flea markets and such. They are usually 20 # though. To fill a large Co2 bottle cost me $19 and because it comes half full of liquid and makes it's gas as it boils, it outlasts a mix gas by a lot.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33An 8" 10-lb roll of fluxcore E71T-11 is about $45 and an 8" roll of solid wire ER70S-6 is about $40, around here, if you buy at Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.  You can get wire for more or less at the local welding supply and more types of wire than what you find at the hardware store.If you're welding outside, definately choose the self shielding fluxcore wire.   If you're inside the shop, then solid wire and gas is fine.  I prefer 85/15 Ar/CO2, but 75/25 and pure CO2 work good too.   If you're going to be moving the machine around alot taking it here and there, fluxcore is alot more convenient than bringing a gas bottle along and finding someplace to keep it safe from falling over while working.  Inside a shop this isn't an issue, just put the welder and bottle together on a cart with wheels and all is well.On the machine, definately get one that has the gas valve.  Even if you may think you're only going to use fluxcore now, you may change your mind in the future.   Most migs truely worth buying have the gas valve in them anyways.  Only the cheapest are fluxcore-only.If you want to run it mostly on 110v but will be getting 220v in the future, there are dual-voltage machines that you can run on either.  The Millermatic 211 and Millermatic Passport are both dual-voltage machines.  Both are excellent welders on both fluxcore and solid + gas.   The Passport is lighter, tougher, has the sweetest arc of any small mig welder made, and even has it's own little CO2 bottle inside so you can weld with solid wire and C02 and not bring along a full size tank.   It lasts for about one fab project, or a few small repairs.http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php
Reply:In your price range you could go with a Lincoln Promig 140 at 110 volts or a Promig 180 at 220volts.  Both can be found at Lowe's.  Home Depot I believe has the same units just named differently and Im not sure of prices from them.  Either of these machines in your price range does not include the gas cylinder.  Either machine is set up for mig and flux core.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Basically Lincoln's Promig 140 made for Century with Century's name on it.  Made with cheaper parts than Lincoln's name brand machines.  Same thing Miller does with the Hobart brand.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:It would be nice to get something gas/and or flux so that i may do gas in the future. Thank you for the tips and i may go check those out this weekend. Is it still a recommendable product or would you say they are to cheap to be good? I am after a bit of quality and reliability but i am conscious that with my price range that may be a problem. And I am willing to sacrifice. Once again thank you all for the help.
Reply:I would check out the Hobart Handler 187.  That may be in your price range.   Or look for a used Millermatic 135 or 140 if you want to run 110v or a used Millermatic 175 or 180 if you want to run 220v.   In your price range, there is no dual-voltage machine, definately not new, and not likely used either.   You'll have to choose one or the other.   Miller does have interest free financing on new machines for one year, offer ending end of September.   They have a flyer about it in the local welding shop and an ad for it on their website too.   The going price on a 211 is about $1000, local or online.   My friend bought one at the local weld shop for about $950.    I welded with it and it welds very nice.  www.millerwelds.comMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Technology in the machines should be the same, but not sure.  Never messed with the Century machines.  If technology/engineering of the machines is the same, then to be able to sell it at lower price, cost cuts have to be made somewhere and its usually in the parts and materials quality area.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33I would check out the Hobart Handler 187.  That may be in your price range.   Or look for a used Millermatic 135 or 140 if you want to run 110v or a used Millermatic 175 or 180 if you want to run 220v.   In your price range, there is no dual-voltage machine, definately not new, and not likely used either.   You'll have to choose one or the other.   Miller does have interest free financing on new machines for one year, offer ending end of September.   They have a flyer about it in the local welding shop and an ad for it on their website too.   The going price on a 211 is about $1000, local or online.   My friend bought one at the local weld shop for about $950.    I welded with it and it welds very nice.  www.millerwelds.com
Reply:Okay now that i have learned a bit more let me narrow the search.Mig/flux core120v Under $550 as much as possible.What im considering:Hobart handler 140: $492115v, 24-140amp, 24ga to 1/4", comes mig ready. (Built-in gas solenoid valve Dual-gauge regulator and gas hose)Century 140: $399Rated Output at 20% Duty Cycle - 90 A at 19 VDCCurrent Range: 30 - 140 AWire Feed Speed: 50-300 IPMInput voltage: 120V/1Ph/60Hzcan be mig with more parts. Thats almost a $100 difference.EDIT: found the hobart for 400 bucks on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/HOBART-Handler-1...d=p3286.c0.m14Last edited by Derv; 08-26-2009 at 08:46 PM.
Reply:www.craigslist.org  is another great resource to check-- fredLincoln 180C MIG
Reply:Sorry. It posted twice.Last edited by Jack Olsen; 08-26-2009 at 11:00 PM.
Reply:I paid $320 for my Hobart Handler 140 on ebay.  Another $120 for a 120cf tank of C25 gas.  $20 worth of Harbor Freight wire and you're good to go for $460.
Reply:Running on 220v, you have more input power available.  With more input, you have more output available.  More output means more welding voltage, ability to run thicker wire and weld on thicker base metal with proper penetration.   1/4" with a 110v mig is far from ideal, though it can be done.  1/8" metal and .035 wire is more the practical limit for most 110v migs, in my opinion.If I was choosing 110v migs, I would choose the Millermatic 135 or 140 or Hobart equivalent or the Lincoln Promig 140, or whatever they call it.   There are a plethora of very cheaply made 110v migs out there that I wouldn't waste money on.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Buying a 110v mig now, only shuts doors in your future. 1/4" is a real stretch for a 110v unit. And no one has said, "gee, I wish I had bought a smaller welder".The Hobart Handler 187 gets good reviews and is available as 'reconditioned' thru Tool King (I think). I believe the grade A recon units are virtually new, returned units.If you're OK with used CraigsList works for many.BUT, a quality 110v welder (Miller, Lincoln, Hobart) is better than no welder.  Don't buy a crap welder, welding is hard enough to learn without equipment issues.Beware of Century, I think they filed bankruptcy.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Thanks for the posts guys, im learning more and more everyday. Ill talk to my father about the possibility of setting up 220. Im not sure if he would let me do it or not. I just dont think ill be welding very thick stuff. and sticking with a 110 would be alllloottt cheaper.I searched craigslist and ebay. Not much used stuff thats any good.
Reply:......well just hang on there before you go off buying your mig, might want to consider the future opportunity of "pulsed spray arc" ability in your new mig?
Reply:He'll have to spend a good 4 G's to get into pulsed spray mig...The price difference between a new Millermatic 140 and 180 isn't that much, maybe $200 I think, and for used 135/140 versus 175/180 machines, the price difference is sometimes none.    I would try to get the 220v service in the garage and get a 220v machine, if at all possible, or save up some more money and get the 211 dual-voltage machine.   If you have an electric dryer outlet in the garage or nearby, you have at least 30 amps of 220v power available to run a welder.   Make an extension cord with a matching plug, coordinate dryer and welder usage with mom and you're in business.  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I agree with DesertRider33 and Craig, get a 220v unit if you can. I started out with a 110v mig and quickly realized I had handicapped myself once I started using it.The new dual 110v/220v migs are great. I'd love to get one of the new Miller 211's. This gives you the ability to use it on 110v now, and still have the power of a 220 v machine later as soon as you can get 220v power hooked up. Unfortunately you pay more for this option than you would a similarly powered 220v only machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganThanks allot guys, i really wish money wasnt an issue, (dont we all). But im not seeing a 220v being a realistic option at this point i understand that it would be an investment but im also thinking to myself. How many of you guys have more than one welder? What if i bought a 110 that was fully portable and used a flux core so i could weld outside and what not. And what if after a year or two i setup 220v in my garage and purchase a much better welder. I Would have lots of options and the 110 would do fine for now.
Reply:If you absolutly have to have one now, and money is the issue, go ahead and get a 110 unit.  But, get a quality one.  One from the big 3.  If you continue welding projects, chances are good that eventually you will have to go bigger and better.  I have and mean others have too.  But, I still keep my 110 unit around for those jobs that are better suited to it.  Good luck.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:I agree with smawgmaw.  Another benefit to buying a Miller, Lincoln or Hobart is that if you want to trade up to a better machine down the road, it'll hold its value pretty well.  If you go with one of the cheap Chinese models, you're likely to simply be throwing it out at some point in the future.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:If you decide to buy from lowes or home depot make a trip to your post office first and pick up one of their "New Move-in address change" packs. They have a bunch of coupons inside including a Lowes coupon for 10% off. They both sell basically the same Lincoln welders under different names for about the same price and Home Depot takes lowes coupons. I Just bought my Lincoln 180 from HD using Home Depot using a Lowes coupon and saved $60.
Reply:There's nothin wrong with having multiple welding machines.  I have at least 10 of them here!  LOL  Only 2 of them run on 110v and one runs on gasoline.  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op