To Push or Pull

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Hello Everyone,Being new to welding, I have many questions.  Here is the basis for my latest.  I saw this on another forum:   ". . .when there's slag...you drag -- for fluxcore drag or pull the puddle, for MIG (with gas) you push..." the nozzel.  I asked if this was alwas true regardless of the thickness of the metal, but got no answer. Can someone enlighten me as to whether I should be pushing or pulling the nozzel? And if there are times when I should be pulling and times when I should be pushing - give me some guidelines.    I am using a Miller 211 with an argon Co2 mix and welding on mild steel mostly 1/8th to 1/4 inch.   Thanks.Darryl
Reply:Originally Posted by sport.pilotHello Everyone,Being new to welding, I have many questions.  Here is the basis for my latest.  I saw this on another forum:   ". . .when there's slag...you drag -- for fluxcore drag or pull the puddle, for MIG (with gas) you push..." the nozzel.  I asked if this was alwas true regardless of the thickness of the metal, but got no answer. Can someone enlighten me as to whether I should be pushing or pulling the nozzel? And if there are times when I should be pulling and times when I should be pushing - give me some guidelines.    I am using a Miller 211 with an argon Co2 mix and welding on mild steel mostly 1/8th to 1/4 inch.   Thanks.Darryl
Reply:William,Thanks for the reply. So it is your opinion that I should always try to push the welding puddle unless for some reason that is not possible?  I just want to be sure.  Since I have little experience pushing or pulling, I am not predisposed to push or pull.  If I should push than that is how I will practice.  Thank you again.Darryl
Reply:It all depends on the metal being welded.Thin sheet metal using flux core, pulling will limit the penetration, pushing will increase penetration & increase the possibility of burn through.  Because you are pushing into a preheated area.Thin sheet metal using gas & solid wire, push will not penetrate as deeply & you can watch the puddle a bit better.  You adjust your travel speed as the puddle washes onto both sides of the metal being welded, pushing the gas forward to keep the weld puddle covered in gas.Thicker metal i.e. 1/8", 1/4" & higher, you up the voltage & wire feed speed (amperage) to compensate.  Pull or push depending on the type of wire used or amount of penetration desired.  Pull generally gives less penetration, push generally gives deeper penetration.  I use both & the dead center moving sideways depending on the configuration of the joint being welded.  I can weld left to right or right to left with the dead center position, just can't see the puddle as easy.  I have to have my head off to one side or the other to see the puddle, but puddle control is the desired way to weld.(I think that's right, but others may offer different opinions.  It's what I do when I weld)MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...articles8.htmlhttp://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ur-skills/mig/View the Mig Welding principlesEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ire-selection/Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2It all depends on the metal being welded.Thin sheet metal using flux core, pulling will limit the penetration, pushing will increase penetration & increase the possibility of burn through.  Because you are pushing into a preheated area.Thin sheet metal using gas & solid wire, push will not penetrate as deeply & you can watch the puddle a bit better.  You adjust your travel speed as the puddle washes onto both sides of the metal being welded, pushing the gas forward to keep the weld puddle covered in gas.Thicker metal i.e. 1/8", 1/4" & higher, you up the voltage & wire feed speed (amperage) to compensate.  Pull or push depending on the type of wire used or amount of penetration desired.  Pull generally gives less penetration, push generally gives deeper penetration.  I use both & the dead center moving sideways depending on the configuration of the joint being welded.  I can weld left to right or right to left with the dead center position, just can't see the puddle as easy.  I have to have my head off to one side or the other to see the puddle, but puddle control is the desired way to weld.(I think that's right, but others may offer different opinions.  It's what I do when I weld)
Reply:Slag processes, that's stick and fluxcore wire, pull (drag) the torch/rod.   The exception is vertical up, use a slight pushing angle.Mig solid wire and gas, pushing the torch yields a wider, flatter, lower penetration bead.  Pulling yields a narrower, taller, deeper penetrating bead.  Use push on thinner metals to avoid burn through.   Use pull to penetrate a deep groove or fillet on thicker metal.   Vertical up, use a slight pushing angle.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Just re-read it (girlfriend was trying to chat when I was typing) & your right, I got it backwards.RATS even!!!! dang girls interrupting my train of thought with a sight to see......................nevermind.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:MarkBall2,Please go back and read Millers manual for GMAW.This is the second time you've put out absolutley wrong information on the same subject.  If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from giving advice.  This is the second time I've directed you to the correct information.Push will result in less penetration and a flater bead.  This is because the wire is directed at new metal which has not been preheated.Pull will result in deeper penetration and a slightly more humped bead profile.  This is because the wire is directed at the molten puddle which has already been preheated.An excellent description of the different types of techniques and the advantages of each can be found on page 46 of Miller's GMAW Handbook.  You can either purchase the book as part of their "student package" or you can download it from the Miller website.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Didn't read the post right above yours now did ya?Apology accepted.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I actually was typing the post when you replied.  Didn't see it til after the posting.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Not a problem.  And I was just kidding with ya anyway.I sometimes get things backwards.  It might be late onset of dyslexia.  I did post it backwards like I said.  Girlfriend is awful pretty & distracting.  Was typing, but not looking or thinking of the computer.................Be back later, have bidness to attend to..................MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Pull.Slag processes in the flat, horz and overhead position. Short circuit on 1/8 and thicker. Push.Spray transfer on anything.Short circuit thinner than 1/8Anything vert up. tig (der)There are exceptions to every rule. I've pushed where i would have rather pulled and vise versa and welded friggin sideways where there was no other choice.
Reply:Originally Posted by sport.pilotWilliam,Thanks for the reply. So it is your opinion that I should always try to push the welding puddle unless for some reason that is not possible?  I just want to be sure.  Since I have little experience pushing or pulling, I am not predisposed to push or pull.  If I should push than that is how I will practice.  Thank you again.Darryl
Reply:There's lots of info on this site, keep in mind it is the internet though, so no guarantees:http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/
Reply:Mark,Just for clarification, I'll add the following comments.After rereading my first post here in this thread, it does seem that I may have "come down a little hard on you".  Let me try to explain why.On 8-16-2009 you responded to a thread titled "Push or Pull", with the same basic comments you provided here.  On that date both DesertRider33 and I both responed that you had stated the effects of push/pull backwards.  I even, at that time, explained why you get more penetration with a pull technique than you do with a push.Then, yesterday, I see your same inaccurate guidance for a second time in less than two weeks.  First time I tried to be "politically correct" and gently inform.  Second time I felt I needed to be a little more forceful/direct.  You may wish to go back to that previous post I referred to.Ironically, all this could have been avoided if the OP had just done a simple search.  This is NOT the first time that the effects of Push/Pull have been discussed (in detail) on this board.  Sometimes it gets freaking old, seeing the same questions asked over and over, especially within two weeks of each other.  Often hard to determine whether the OP just doesn't understand how to use the search feature or is too lazy to put forth a little effort to obtain an answer.Oh yeah, I never claimed to be very good at tact.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:No problems here.  I keep posting & learning when I'm corrected.  My experience is it usually takes twice to get it through my thick skull.  Either that or a baseball bat.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Mark,Sometimes it's hard to "reach out and touch someone" with a baseball bat via the internet.Just kidding.  You've been a real sport about the whole thing.  Good attitude.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Mark,Oh, BTW.  In reading another of your postings, am I to assume you were one of the guys responsible for filling the individual pony bottles of oxygen we used in HALO jumps?Sorta a leap of faith/trust in others when you step out the door of a C-141 at 35,000'.  Don't know the guy who packed the chute, filled the oxygen bottle, etc.  Just hoped it all worked as it was supposed to.If you did happen to be one of those guys, Thanks.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:No, we didn't have anything to do with the HALO jump kits.  I fixed the planes & rode in the back seat of a Phantom.  LOX was used in the jets & I filled those, but not the emergency O2 bottles.  That's compressed gas, not LOX.I also went out the back of a C-130 4 times as part of my training.  Screamed all the way down the first 3 times, had to change my uniform the first 2, enjoyed the last one.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Mark,LMAO,I used to really enjoy going back to Benning and getting my qualifying jumps in.  We'd often jump on a C-130 full of student jumpers just to get in the air.  You'd watch these new guys get a bad "door blast" and then hear their helmets banging along the fuselage of the aircraft all the way to the tail.  I suspect you wern't the only one to land with "dirty britches".C-141 was a different bird.  Had the wind deflector and a small platform.  Kinda like stepping off and going down a big sliding board.  Didn't want to do a door blast into the thrust of the inboard engine.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Ours was the ramp.  Lowered the ramp, after hooking up to a static line, then lockstep march forward while hanging onto the chute of the guy in front of you...........Suddenly the guy in front of you was gone, you were being pushed forward in step & step into nothingness.AAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII  IIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for about 9500 feet. Or so it seemed.  Only went about 75 feet before the static line tightened & pulled the chute out.  Then floated to the ground.  Ours were the round chutes, not the high performance canopies you guys get to use.My mother turned 80 this past July 15th.  My brothers & sisters chipped in, she did a tandem jump in Missouri at the family reunion on July 19th.  She loved it!!!  Too bad I wasn't able to go, I would have jumped with her.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Mark,Sounds like your mom's a gutsy gal.  More power to her.Yea, sounds like you were jumping the old T-10's.  That's what we used when I originally went thru jump school back in '67.Later on, they removed a few panels (to give the chute more steerability) and called it the dash 1.  When I went thru Benning I think we were jumping from 1200'.  When they went with the dash 1's they were having problems with student jumpers crashing into each other because of the increased steerability.  Their solution was to jump from a lower altitude, like 700-800' if I remember correctly.  At those altitudes, you don't "count to 3" before checking your main.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIMarkBall2,Please go back and read Millers manual for GMAW.This is the second time you've put out absolutley wrong information on the same subject.  If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from giving advice.  This is the second time I've directed you to the correct information.Push will result in less penetration and a flater bead.  This is because the wire is directed at new metal which has not been preheated.Pull will result in deeper penetration and a slightly more humped bead profile.  This is because the wire is directed at the molten puddle which has already been preheated.An excellent description of the different types of techniques and the advantages of each can be found on page 46 of Miller's GMAW Handbook.  You can either purchase the book as part of their "student package" or you can download it from the Miller website.When was the last time you Mig welded anything but AL with straight argon man? I can see that you are technically correct in your terminology but you're only going to confuse people and that's not helpful at all. Just say GMAW not MAG welding. Mig welding is the slang term for the process even if you're running straight c02 because no one wants to walk around the shop yelling, "hey use GMAW not GTAW on that. If the best results were always obtianed using straight argon and a push I assure you the other mixes would not exist. There would be no need for them. The I stands for Inert. We get it. Lets stick to real world discussions if at all possible. In the real world 99% of mig welding on ferrous metels is done with mixed gas. in the real world 99% of the time a slight pull will yield more penetration. This being a "new to welding" thread  I'm sure the OP neither cares nor is knowledgable enough to benefit from the discuss about the 1% of the time.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr Argon CO2 is not MIG welding, Argon Oxygen 98/2 is not MIG welding, it is MAG welding.         Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Mark, when you were in the back seat of the Phantom, were you pushing or pulling?    Just kidding, couldn't resist!  Really, what were you doing back there, maintenace check?  Always had an interest in those birds.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by i4sillypwrWhen was the last time you Mig welded anything but AL with straight argon man? I can see that you are technically correct in your terminology but you're only going to confuse people and that's not helpful at all. Just say GMAW not MAG welding. Mig welding is the slang term for the process even if you're running straight c02 because no one wants to walk around the shop yelling, "hey use GMAW not GTAW on that. If the best results were always obtianed using straight argon and a push I assure you the other mixes would not exist. There would be no need for them. The I stands for Inert. We get it. Lets stick to real world discussions if at all possible. In the real world 99% of mig welding on ferrous metels is done with mixed gas. in the real world 99% of the time a slight pull will yield more penetration. This being a "new to welding" thread  I'm sure the OP neither cares nor is knowledgable enough to benefit from the discuss about the 1% of the time.
Reply:Originally Posted by smawgmawMark, when you were in the back seat of the Phantom, were you pushing or pulling?    Just kidding, couldn't resist!  Really, what were you doing back there, maintenace check?  Always had an interest in those birds.
Reply:So you were WSO, RIO, or classified other?A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:GIB - Guy in Back.  I was a crew chief, primarily to fix the birds.  Opportunities arose that I could ride in the back seat, which I took advantage of.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Great deal!  I dont blame you.  If I would have been in your position, I would have taken advantage of it too!  Besides, you were in charge.  Pilot may have been flying the bird, but without you maintaining it, he wasnt going to fly it.  Did it have dual controls and did you get any stick time?A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Some, I got to drive around in different directions, brought it in for a few approaches, but never did any landings.  Emergency procedures "flip knee pad to bold", announcing master cautions what heading was, declare an emergency & radio procedures were most of what I did back there.  Once we were flying the eastern coast of ROK shooting the side looker camera, I had my head down on the radar screen.  Pilot said "BIRD", yanked back on the stick, I swear my head bounced off the pedals.  We pulled 8 g's with me bent over like that.  We was maxed out at 645 knots at 500 feet, when I could finally straighten up we were at 30,000 feet in a full stall in full burner at 0 knots.  Pilot chopped the throttles & said "Right rudder", we swung around headed straight back down.  After about 12,000 feet we had enough airspeed to pull out of the dive.  When we got back to base, we grounded the airplane to do an inspection for "over-g" & had to do x-ray inspections on the wing bolts.I did have fun in the back seat though.  Most were pretty routine, out/back with parts.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrThe problem I noted with drag, is that when you aim the wire at a molten puddle, that gets very hot, you reduce the amount of power that you can put into the puddle. That is why it does not penetrate as well as straight on or slight push. Heat is made of electrons. So the hotter something gets the less amperage you can apply deeply into the part. Because the very hot puddle repels the incoming electrons. TIG welders know this for sure. They can stop and study it while it is happening. You get the fastest, heating by hitting the fresh metal, because you can deliver the most amperage. When you try to hit a hot puddle you get less amperage no matter the machines settings. Many people will argue this and I have to listen to all their arguments. Because depending on your material thickness or wire size, you can break just about any rule. However if you are using the optimum, wire size, the right power and MIG'n with pure Argon, straight on or slight push angle will yield the best results and most penetration. Flux core is not MIG welding. Argon CO2 is not MIG welding, Argon Oxygen 98/2 is not MIG welding, it is MAG welding. Pure Argon and solid wire, is MIG welding.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:when doing a multi pass flux-core weld i always drag every pass but the cap and then push that so it lays nice and flat and looks better. thought being by that point it is plenty hot and penetration will be sufficient. sometimes it is nice to push flux fillers though if you have a gap or need it to spread out more than you need it to dig, or if you are having problems with burn through definitely push. under ideal joints i would agree with the slag you drag slogan but things are rarely ideal.
Reply:Originally Posted by i4sillypwrWhen was the last time you Mig welded anything but AL with straight argon man? I can see that you are technically correct in your terminology but you're only going to confuse people and that's not helpful at all. Just say GMAW not MAG welding. Mig welding is the slang term for the process even if you're running straight c02 because no one wants to walk around the shop yelling, "hey use GMAW not GTAW on that. If the best results were always obtianed using straight argon and a push I assure you the other mixes would not exist. There would be no need for them. The I stands for Inert. We get it. Lets stick to real world discussions if at all possible. In the real world 99% of mig welding on ferrous metels is done with mixed gas. in the real world 99% of the time a slight pull will yield more penetration. This being a "new to welding" thread  I'm sure the OP neither cares nor is knowledgable enough to benefit from the discuss about the 1% of the time.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyShouldn't welding with a mix be called MIAG ?  So now we could have MIG, MAG, MIAG. We could even delineate which % of mix to be more technically correct. I have a M75I25AG set up right now.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrBig factories, often do a thousand test welds before they OK one type of weld on a certain part.
Reply:Getting back to the subject. I got this by reading the article off the Miller board, and I am getting a little confused.The vertical up technique - beginning at the bottom of a joint and welding up - can provide better penetration on thicker materials (typically 1/4 in. or more). The travel angle of the gun is a 5 to 15 degree drop from the perpendicular position. A slight weaving motion can help control the size, shape and cooling effects of the weld puddle
Reply:The problem I noted with drag, is that when you aim the wire at a molten puddle, that gets very hot, you reduce the amount of power that you can put into the puddle. That is why it does not penetrate as well as straight on or slight push. Heat is made of electrons. So the hotter something gets the less amperage you can apply deeply into the part. Because the very hot puddle repels the incoming electrons
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010Getting back to the subject. I got this by reading the article off the Miller board, and I am getting a little confused.Now, if you are welding vertical and going up, are you pushing or pulling ? I would assume from the gun angle that you are pushing. The reason they give for better penetration is that you are usually moving slower with a vertical up technique and the metal is getting preheated.
Reply:I happened to go to the shop today to put up some .35 mig wire I bought about a week ago. I opened the hood of my 180T to see if I had a tip. I noticed something at the bottom of the info on the lid  I had never noticed before. It was a picture of a mig gun with direction arrows. According to the diagram when using Flux core flat you should use pull. On vertical up you should use push.  Using gas C-25 or 100 % CO2 you should use push flat and pull vertical down. On the picture of the Aluminum Spool Gun it showed push flat and vertical up. I think I will go with what Lincoln said. If it is wrong I can blame it on someone else, and I don't even have to memorize it, since I know where to look now.
Reply:A welder can join two pieces of metal with any process and any technique and say "it'll hold" *shudder* but the commonly accepted practices of pulling with slag processes and pushing on 3F is to create a weld with consistent penetration with no weld defects or discontiuities from welding over slag. A hobbist could weld 6010 uphill (or fluxcore or 7018 downhill) at home and that joint may never fail but that practice is *not* acceptable for code welding.Following that recommended techniques for a certain process is best.I find the recommended 5 - 15 degree push works best for uphill weldingPower of Blue Baby!
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010I happened to go to the shop today to put up some .35 mig wire I bought about a week ago. I opened the hood of my 180T to see if I had a tip. I noticed something at the bottom of the info on the lid  I had never noticed before. It was a picture of a mig gun with direction arrows. According to the diagram when using Flux core flat you should use pull. On vertical up you should use push.  Using gas C-25 or 100 % CO2 you should use push flat and pull vertical down. On the picture of the Aluminum Spool Gun it showed push flat and vertical up. I think I will go with what Lincoln said. If it is wrong I can blame it on someone else, and I don't even have to memorize it, since I know where to look now.
Reply:All those things you said there are exactly what we've been saying in this discussion if you were reading along...
Reply:drag is deeper penetration narrow bead, push is shallow penetration with wider, flatter bead. thats pretty basic stuff. spray transfer methods generally pushstick, flux core, short circuit = dragshort circuit mig on thin sheet = pushvertical welds can be an exception. vertical up slight push / down drag
Reply:drag is deeper penetration narrow bead, push is shallow penetration with wider, flatter bead. thats pretty basic stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010I am not going to argue this, but go back to post # 40. That quote  is right off the Miller board in one of their articles. It sounds like this guy doesn't always think so. Maybe he got it wrong. He said vertical up gives deeper penetration. I will have to go back and see what process he was talking about but I am thinking it was flux core.
Reply:Originally Posted by 6010Your theory is true in part. As with most materials an increase in heat results in a corresponding increase in resistance. This is because as the heat is increased the electrons become more agitated, a condition that is not conducive to maximum current flow. This is true of most materials with the exception of a few such as carbon and semi conductor material ( thermal runaway). But you have to figure in the time factor. For lightning protection a small ground wire can carry thousands of amps safely to ground without melting, simply because the the lightning is of short duration and the wire doesn't have time to heat up. So the time factor may outweigh the resistance factor in welding because most people will agree when using push in mig welding,you are welding slower than with pull - and you can see the arc better too.I just thought I would throw this out there to muddy the water a little.