Any tips for 3G open groove?

admin

As a part of my College Combination Welding course, we get to test for AWS or ASME on plate. I already have a Student AWS membership so making the certs go for AWS.Passed my 1G open groove without a problem.Just had my first bend test attempt for 3G open groove with 1/8" 6010. Face passed on the bend but the root ripped open on its try.I think I ran it at around 90 amps and 0 dig. Is that a hair cold (?) or possibly I might have ran it too fast.I get more lab time in the booth on Wednesday so shooting for it again. Looking for any tips that might help out on the root pass.Thanks in advance for any tips.Edit: To add there is an 1/8" landingLast edited by bp72; 09-24-2012 at 03:30 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by bp72As a part of my College Combination Welding course, we get to test for AWS or ASME on plate. I already have a Student AWS membership so making the certs go for AWS.Passed my 1G open groove without a problem.Just had my first bend test attempt for 3G open groove with 1/8" 6010. Face passed on the bend but the root ripped open on its try.I think I ran it at around 90 amps and 0 dig. Is that a hair cold (?) or possibly I might have ran it too fast.I get more lab time in the booth on Wednesday so shooting for it again. Looking for any tips that might help out on the root pass.Thanks in advance for any tips.
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderHow big was your gap, and how thick was your land?    You putting the root in down hill, or up hill??  IF up hill, did you let the weld build a shelf before you moved on up on the plate?  May be slow it down a bit, the same can be said for down hill, maybe you moved to fast if you went down hill.   Can you see if your getting full pen on the back, if not, push a little more.   Do you have pics of the weld???
Reply:Originally Posted by bp72No pics.. just threw it in the recycle bin. All uphill with 1/8: gap and 1/8" landing. We are not allowed downhill there.
Reply:Hold your sides and burn it in there, second pass crank the heat up and get a really good hot pass in there.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Its a part of our project packets we have to do this semester. Everything is gapped at 1/8". I was thinking of that Z movement. I might try that out on a test piece and see how I feel with it. Otherwise that up down movement is usually how I go. Keyhole and fill.
Reply:you need to turn up your heat a little, use a u shape motion. And push it in there like shoving putty at the bottom of the keyhole.next pass " the hot pass" turn it up, don't be sceered .Hickory
Reply:Thanks all. We will see how it goes on Wednesday.
Reply:Well, failed again. I had a spot that I had to do a restart on the root and apparently the sides did not tie in well enough. The solid parts of the root held really well. I think I will move on to 4G and swing back for the 3G after that. I get a pic of the fail spot up here in a few minutes.
Reply:Here it is. So close but so far.
Reply:Looking at your photos... What's your plate thickness? Kind of looks like 3/8" by the root pass size. On my 1" 3G SMAW cert practice and qualification I used a 1/8" root opening and a 1/8" root face in my prep for that joint. It worked well for me to use a kind of J-stitch (as I call it) motion on the 6010 root. Its a combination of a stitch in and out of the root opening and a very small whip. Really hard to explain in text. So, in the photo (and I'm no CWI) it looks like the lack of fusion occurred at a point where you took too big of a move up the plate. Either in speed or in distance if that makes any sense? Or, perhaps it was a restart? If that's so, there's a couple things you can do. First, since you know generally where your bend strips are being cut, put a line with your favorite metal marker a little above and below where each test strip will be cut and just dont do a restart there. Also, when I get to the end of a rod on my root I push it completely out the back of the plate, let the arc die and then yank it back out. This leaves a nice round hole in which you can tie in your restart. If you restart above the pass and come down you may have problems on the 6010 root as well. I like to restart just below and then come up to the hole left by the method I mentioned above and pause just long enough to get everything tied in well, then I start moving. Make any sense?My root passes that bent were all run on a Miller XMT 304 set at about 85A and the arc force all the way up. I brought my own Lincoln 5+ E6010 in for my practice and testing because the stuff at the school was garbage. Yes, you don't always get to choose what kind of rod you use on the job and you need to be able to do a code weld with what ever you get handed. The red brick colored ESAB rod the school was using at that time was just nasty stuff and I didn't want the added problem while trying to perfect technique.These are just things that work for me but everyone has a little different way of doing things.Anyway, good luck. You'll get it.EricAWS D1.1 Certified SMAW 3G Unlimited, Open Root                             FCAW-G 3G Unlimited, w/BackerCellular Tower Reinforcement Welding on the frozen tundra of the greater Mid-West
Reply:I am pretty sure it was a restart spot. I was on a different table and the clamp was towards the back of the table. The dry run.. the rod hit the wall behind it so I just did not fully position correctly. Burned about half the rod and then I could not get closer without freehanding it. So I stopped it to reposition myself. I am pretty sure I just did not tie in to the sides where I restarted... why... maybe just not thinking.It is 3/8th flatbar. 4" x 5" strips we weld together.My instructor says people that he has seen that have problems with 3G are either face or root... not both. So apparently I am a root problem. He does a visual on each level to watch the progression before grinding and it looked fine to him but the bend showed the problem. I am not worried about getting it. More time trying is more time practicing. Making mistakes is a nice learning experience ... when in school like I am doing. I see the rookie mistakes first hand and learn what to do or what not to do. Before school I never did anything  beyond flat and horz. and never anything critical. This is nice for me to learn and get it tested.At least on this piece... I had a nice bead on the back so where it was not restarted was looking good. It was better looking than my first attempt.Friday I might set up a piece for 3G and a piece for 4G. Run a root and while that is cooling, run a root on the other. So on and so forth. Try to get 2 pieces tested if they look good to me.I think the rods we get are from Lincoln. I need to look at our rod boxes to make sure. We do have the red rods but we all use the tanish coated ones cause they are in the oven. We get good US Metal too. I tried blaming it on Chinese steel...lol.Last edited by bp72; 09-27-2012 at 07:17 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by bp72I think the rods we get are from Lincoln. I need to look at our rod boxes to make sure. We do have the red rods but we all use the tanish coated ones cause they are in the oven. We get good US Metal too. I tried blaming it on Chinese steel...lol.
Reply:Originally Posted by bp72I am pretty sure it was a restart spot. I was on a different table and the clamp was towards the back of the table. The dry run.. the rod hit the wall behind it so I just did not fully position correctly. Burned about half the rod and then I could not get closer without freehanding it. So I stopped it to reposition myself. I am pretty sure I just did not tie in to the sides where I restarted... why... maybe just not thinking.It is 3/8th flatbar. 4" x 5" strips we weld together.My instructor says people that he has seen that have problems with 3G are either face or root... not both. So apparently I am a root problem. He does a visual on each level to watch the progression before grinding and it looked fine to him but the bend showed the problem. I am not worried about getting it. More time trying is more time practicing. Making mistakes is a nice learning experience ... when in school like I am doing. I see the rookie mistakes first hand and learn what to do or what not to do. Before school I never did anything  beyond flat and horz. and never anything critical. This is nice for me to learn and get it tested.At least on this piece... I had a nice bead on the back so where it was not restarted was looking good. It was better looking than my first attempt.Friday I might set up a piece for 3G and a piece for 4G. Run a root and while that is cooling, run a root on the other. So on and so forth. Try to get 2 pieces tested if they look good to me.I think the rods we get are from Lincoln. I need to look at our rod boxes to make sure. We do have the red rods but we all use the tanish coated ones cause they are in the oven. We get good US Metal too. I tried blaming it on Chinese steel...lol.
Reply:A welding student who hasn't learned the difference between electrodes is a lazy student who shouldn't worry about being certified.Why Is Lohy in the oven, Why do you not put XX10 in an oven? Why do we use XX10 as a root pass and Lohy to fill cap? Heres the next question, What code are you welding too? Why are the coupons 4"x5" and not 7" ?Last edited by LawsonWeldingLLC; 09-28-2012 at 02:18 AM.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welding_SwedeSo, you get to grind between passes? Man, must be nice. We could wire brush and use a pick to clean the toes between passes and that was it. The good part was that it forced me to get each pass right the first time. Anyway, sounds like you'll have it soon. Don't give up, you're almost there.Eric
Reply:You should almost be able to pick your hood up when depositing weld, start a small keyhole and stuff the rod, the arc should be mostly on the back side of the plate. Except for when you whip out to let the puddle freeze.Miller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:Was a bad day for everyone. We had rain move in and it got humid. When that happened, everyone seemed to have troubles... including the Instructor when showing another guy a vert root pass. I was getting frustrated most of the time but finally got something welded for vert. Just got to grind it down Monday to bend test. I tried a run at 4G but it just got bad...lol. Looked like I was laying a turd from a constipated dog.Just one of those days but Monday is a new day.I was wrong on the color of the 6010's... they are silverish... but we do have the red ones. Took my cell out to the car because there were some people running hi-freq tig. So I did not get any photos today.Last edited by bp72; 09-28-2012 at 01:52 PM.