Tall Bike

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Hey all, just a little winter project I'm working on while I'm on break between semesters.I picked these bicycles up at the local dump. You gotta love free!I'm aiming for a five foot seat height when I'm done.Also, I'm the joking type, and since tone is lost on the internet I'll put  a  if I'm just kidding aroundI call this Project Assplant Two frames and components off the other!Frames strippedRear triangle removed (Sawzall action)Top rear triangle removedMeasuring bearing races Frame alignment tool
Reply:HaHa, I'm loving it.  That should be one heck of a bike.  Fun project. So what is the plan?  Graft the two frames on top of one another and then what?
Reply:Don't forget to sand down the "alignment tool" lest you get any imperfections in the trueness of it... Nothing more critical than alignment! Miller XMT-3502 Lincoln Power Mig 140C (One w/ dedicated spoolgun)Jackson NexGen / Miller Digital EliteMiller S32P SuperWeldcraft 17fv & 9fv Tig TorchVictor & Purox O/ALincoln Ranger 9Fairly Cold Beer!!
Reply:A quickie updateHere's the REAL frame alignment tool ($17 at the local hardware store, who knew they carried these things? )I didn't want to drop money on tapered bushings, so I went this route instead. The headtube bearing races have radiused corners and the fit is very good (well, not to a machinist!) so this should work out for my first attempt. It's 5/8" steel threaded rod, grade 8 washers, and grade cheap (2?) nuts.I may go buy some more nuts so I can lock them down before I start the welding, which wont be for a while!
Reply:Originally Posted by southernrebelHaHa, I'm loving it.  That should be one heck of a bike.  Fun project. So what is the plan?  Graft the two frames on top of one another and then what?
Reply:I would pay money just to see the looks you will get on the street when you ride it Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Gazing into my crystal ball, I see blood and a fair amount of pain in your future! Be sure to wear your bike helmet."The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob the WelderGazing into my crystal ball, I see blood and a fair amount of pain in your future! Be sure to wear your bike helmet.
Reply:Finally got fitup on the lower frame seat post pretty good. It was kind of tricky because the top bikes downtube has an octagonal cross section. Here's a pic of fitup. Gap is constant all the way around, but not to a machinist!Here's a pic of the mitering. I appreciate files and hacksaws more now.An overview of what this accomplishes
Reply:I just hope there doesn't come a day soon when we all wonder why we haven't heard from Taiden in a whileHH187Hobart 500i plasma cutterClark 4.5" GrinderDewalt 14" chop saw30 gallom 1.6 hp compressor10 gallon pressure pot sand blasterlots of hand tools
Reply:Originally Posted by kenklingermanI just hope there doesn't come a day soon when we all wonder why we haven't heard from Taiden in a while
Reply:a chain tool and chain from walmart will be great.isn't that huffy Al? you got an Al welder/access to one?double bikes are awesome
Reply:It's actually steel, thank god!At least this magnet I got on my fridge LOVES it. Luckily I already have a park chain tool... We'll see how it goes. Here is my BOM for the rest of the project. Actually it's more of a LOM (list of materials) since I don't have pricing on it yet. 1.5" x 0.095" wall round tube 24" long0.875 x 0.095" wall round tube 36" longTomorrow I will call the local steel suppliers and see what they can do for me. I'm going for DOM steel unless someone has a better idea.Here are dimensions thanks to my trusty harbor freight analog caliper1.498" -- inner bearing race (both head tubes)0.998" -- fork tube outer diameter (Black bike)0.835" -- fork tube inner diameter (Black bike)0.085" -- fork tube wall thickness0.875" -- fork tube inner diameter (Pink bike)The trick is to fit a tube into the inner bearing race to make both head tubes one piece, and to extend the fork tube by fitting another piece of tube inside it, welding around the lip and in a few other places (drill a few holes in the fork tube). I need to do this without allowing the two pieces of tube to collide.Last edited by Taiden; 12-28-2010 at 07:43 PM.
Reply:Next project: Lowrider bike.Hurts a lot less if you fall over!
Reply:Originally Posted by joedirt1966Next project: Lowrider bike.Hurts a lot less if you fall over!
Reply:There used to be a way to build a high bike by flipping the frame.  My cousin did one when we were kids.  It rode fine, but you had to find the right place to stop.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZimmThere used to be a way to build a high bike by flipping the frame.  My cousin did one when we were kids.  It rode fine, but you had to find the right place to stop.
Reply:we use to cut the front  tubes off another bikeand pound them on the front of another, an make extended front end choppers (little wheel in frontidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:That seat post connection looks like a weak point to me.  Are you planning on at least welding the seat post to the seat tube of the lower frame, because that clamp could slip, and that could stop your ability to steer?If I were doing it, I would cut out the bottom bracket on the red bike, and have the two seat tubes meet in a straight line (maybe using a piece of seat post on the inside for alignment).  Then cut the red down tube to meet the black top tube, and weld all around the perimeter of that overly complex joint.That would screw up your headset alignment, but if you're doing all this welding anyway, it might be easier to just make a single tube for the headset, cut the original two off, and weld new tube back in.Because the bearing races are pressed in, any side forces could easily cause them to pull out, so I'm not sure how you would connect the two head tubes otherwise, without removing the inner races.
Reply:I will be welding the seat post to the upper and lower frame after alignment has all checked out. That will be the last thing to be welded. (Seat post to lower frame)I had thought about doing what you mentioned... a tube through both seat posts, except the down tube on the red frame is longer than the black one, that's why the black seat post sits a little fore of the red bottom bracket.Also I need to leave the red bottom bracket in, so I can pedal. As for the bearing races being pressed in. you bring up a fantastic point. I was going to seat some tube in the race and weld it to the race, and then tack up the race to the head tubes. The fork will be extended with threads at the top, so it will have a certain amount of 'clamping' of that piece. Of course the frame should not rely on this clamping should anything fail.I'm now debating punching out the bottom red bearing race and the top black bearing race and finding some tube with an O.D. that matches the head tube O.D. and do a single butt weld on each head tube. Man a paper and pencil would really help. Text confuses me.Last edited by Taiden; 12-28-2010 at 11:49 PM.
Reply:Which do you think would be better of the two options for making the head tubes one unit?
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob the WelderGazing into my crystal ball, I see blood and a fair amount of pain in your future! Be sure to wear your bike helmet.
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenActually, my buddy wants to build a lowrider. If I prove myself worthy on this project, it might be #2.
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorwe use to cut the front  tubes off another bikeand pound them on the front of another, an make extended front end choppers (little wheel in front
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldordieIs this what you call a lowrider?http://www.rqriley.com/bike.htmlOriginally Posted by TaidenI'm sure everyone has their own definitions... but this is more or less what my friend wanted to make, but less complicated.It's not really my thing, but I think it would be a fun project.
Reply:We fiddled with tall bikes years ago when I was a kid but I hadn't heard about them again until recently when someone we know told us about the bike scene in LA & other parts of CA.  The Burning Man pix give some idea of what else is out there...not all of this world.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonandesign
Reply:[QUOTE=Taiden;453265. . .Also I need to leave the red bottom bracket in, so I can pedal. . . .I'm now debating punching out the bottom red bearing race and the top black bearing race. . .[/QUOTE]Time to insert my foot into my mouth.  Pedaling, yeah that would be nice on a bike!  Yeah, the races come right out.  Line up a screwdriver, and a couple of hammer taps later they're gone.  I'd be concerned to weld to them.  They're probably a hardened alloy, I would expect them to end up pretty brittle if you weld on them.You might actually want to lose all of the races actually, and replace with a threadless headset.  Then you could just weld a single steer tube to the fork, instead of adding an extension to the middle of an existing steer tube, but that starts adding $$ to the build cost.
Reply:We built one of these when I was kid.... maybe? as I recall from around 1961... U turn one frame over upside down so the crank is on top... then run an idler and gear one crank to the other.  We had some direction and a li'l help from a  frends Dad... drew some looks Boy Howdy it did. Good luck.   U got your clown suit already right?Last edited by PapaLion; 12-29-2010 at 10:01 AM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:I remember building a chopper bike when i was a kid. That was one of my first welding projects! Fun Fun..Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:I never had access to tools like that as a kid, so I have to relive my childhood the way I wish it was.
Reply:ha, who welded, just shove one tube into the other & hammer it in & hope for the best miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Originally Posted by turbocad6ha, who welded, just shove one tube into the other & hammer it in & hope for the best
Reply:Why does that make me think of Indian Larry the motorcycle builder. Stood straight p on his motorcycle in a parking lot doing 5mph; caravel trick for fun. Fell off (5mph), bounced his pumpkin off the concrete and died at the end of the episode!
Reply:one word as to what should be top priority imho... weight... whatever you decide to use, choose the lightest weight practical over just strong... I'm not saying it doesn't need to be strong, but I would value weight as the single biggest obstacle for you, which is why I would say to build a frame from scratch personally... too bad niether of those frames are aluminum, would be a good donor for head tube & bottom bracket... then tube out the rest...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:This is sort of my introduction to tall bikes. I would like to give this a shot, and if I really like it I'll make a better one, maybe pawn it off to some kid who could use a little less brain cells.  Just kidding, of course.Edit: Anyway, I think I'm going with the ERW pipe. It matches very closely to the dimensions I need, and it's 1/3 the cost. Plus I'll have some pipe laying around to do some serious damage with later. Last edited by Taiden; 12-29-2010 at 04:00 PM.
Reply:You might also keep a look out on ebay for DOM.  Yes, the size you want prob isn't going to be avail when you want it....Linc Idealarc 250 / SP130 / ProCut20, Harris Torch
Reply:Did you look at black pipe at homedepot. Im not sure on the prices though. But you won't have to add in shipping cost.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:I'll throw up the quote I got from the local steel place, along with my measurements of their pipe. Yes I brought a micrometer to measure their pipe (slaps forehead):American Steel1.375" x 0.120" x 20' DOM -- $91.400.875" x 0.095" x 20' DOM -- $55.001" Sch40 x 21' uncoated pipe = $28.52 (1.330" OD x 0.133" wall)1/2" Sch40 x 21' uncoated pipe = $19.66 (0.840" OD x 0.108" wall)------------------Home Depot:1" Sch40 x 10' black pipe = $16.441/2" Sch40 x 10' black pipe = $9.49So that's$4.57 a ft (1.375" DOM)$2.75 a ft (0.875" DOM)$1.36 a ft (1" American Steel uncoated pipe)$0.94 a ft (1/2" American Steel uncoated pipe)$1.64 a ft (1" Home Depot black pipe)$0.95 a ft (1/2" Home Depot black pipe)It's official, I calculate things WAY too much.
Reply:What about cutting a tube from a garage sale scrap bicycle?  That's got to be cheaper than what you're looking at, although garage sales are pretty rare this time of year.  Maybe craigslist.
Reply:So right now I'm debating between stick and TIG. I'm better at stick, and some of the joints are tough to clean up. Some have paint/grease/whatever that is in close proximity to the weld joint... I have Er70S-2 tig wireAnd 3/32" 6010and 3/32" 6013I feel most comfortable with the 6013Some joints are about 0.120" wall, and others are about 0.090" wall fillet joints.
Reply:Taiden, I will start by saying I take no responsibility for the hours you blow looking at this site. I send you there with the best intentions. Get fluids and food before you start. Replace your chair with a porta-crapper. I just makes it easier on you and your loved oneswww.atomiczombie.com But there again from the looks of yer project, you may have blown hours there already!For the head tube jig, it may be better to build the fork first by cutting a regular one, welding in a spacer tube and using this as your head tube alignment jig. Also, cut the bottom and top off the head tubes and weld in a piece of tube to make one long head tube. Just tossing out ideas. Keep us posted with pics!!! Lots of fun to be had! And don't pull an Indian Larry!!!!200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:A few words before the pictures. I have so much respect for guys who TIG weld roll cages. I can run a decent (not good) bead flat, but trying to run around a pipe with a hand amptrol only is extremely humbling. Also, people say fitup is critical for TIG and they are not lying. I thought I would get away with a 1/8" gap on some thin tubing, and it didn't work at all. I ended up just blasting it with some 6013 and that didn't make it any better.Regardless, here are some pictures. And people wonder why I don't weld stuff for them. Head tube extension all set up and ready to go.Fit up on the seat post was terrible so I blew right through it in the middle. Learning experience. I'm going to add a support that will run parallel with it.Head tube all welded up.Top head tube extension weldBottom head tube extension weldFork extension weld #1Fork extension weld #2Extended forkThe bike almost done
Reply:Me standing next to it (I'm 6'3")
Reply:Oh, I'd also like to note that the "frame jig" I made worked a treat. You can see in the first picture that I tacked some angle in to hold the shape so i could take the jig out. Alignment was perfect (well, not to a machinist!)The steering is silky smooth. I am very impressed with myself that I could at least get smooth steering. That was my biggest concern.
Reply:That is a tall bike! Lets see you ride that with a few Brewskies (beers) in ya haha. Better wear a helmet.
Reply:nice!Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:guess its gonna flip pretty easy with the seat behind center of the rear wheel..
Reply:Fun project.With a little practice, you'll be riding wheelies in no time!Stoppies.......uh.....not so sure.
Reply:Hope you have good health insurance."The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.