Tack welds on square tubing for a SLIDE GATE

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Hello guys, I'm not welder but I like weld very much, i'm building a slide gate for a friend, but I have a problem...I put all parts together and clamp it, but when I make a few tacks in the square tubing, this one "twist" in the tacks direction...Any tips or advice for tack this parts without that "twist"?I'm using stick welder and 6013 rodsThe square tubing is 4"x1.5" Gauge #16The gate is 2m height and 4.7m widhtThanks... Attached Images
Reply:When you heat up metal, it essentially contracts to a smaller state than before you heated it -- it warps.  It's why you clamp the metal securely in position and then make small welds that 'pull' the material in opposite directions so that it stays straight.  Some pipe clamps would hold that top piece in position.  If you turn the gate to vertical, you could tack on opposite sides to balance the stress caused by the welds.  If you do all the welds on one side, the whole panel might warp like a potato chip.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:You could also tack in the middle of the miter (on the inside) .\  Just grind it before you fit up the adjoining piece.  Other than that, clamps like Jack says.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Tack it on 2 different planes... like the other side.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:that is not the easiest design to accomplish. ideally you'd want to build your perimeter frame first (to prevent the twisting you are getting) and then inlay the interior pieces. but if you are slightly off on the I.D. of the exterior frame, then your last "slat" will either not fit or be too loose. Plus you are working on a crappy floor. But what i see looks pretty damn good. excellent work I'd say.Since you've come soo far, I'd either continue like you are with a very minimal tac weld or start using a long I-beam that you could justify the perimeter frame and interior slats to with C-clamps as you go. When you do decide to weld it up, I would for sure clamp an I-beam to the perimeter frame and slats with a deep-throat C clap to pull them all true to the ibeam and then weld away.again, nice looking gate. nice design and will show every flaw but it looks good to me.
Reply:gzm.pepeStop now, and seek out a welder/fabricator in your net-work of associates for advice.  Your issues are too global for an easy answer via the forum.   OpusLast edited by OPUS FERRO; 09-17-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Reply:Pony clamp.  That is to say when you go to tack the back side, suck the gap tight using a pony clamp.  It works wonders!  That is quite the gate!  "Built like the Bizmarck"Last edited by mb_welder; 09-18-2012 at 06:23 AM.
Reply:Thank you all for all of your commentsI solved making tree sawhorses then rest all the parts up there, and I weld one tack up, one down, one up, one down and so on, for avoid it warpshere some recent images of the gate: Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROgzm.pepeStop now, and seek out a welder/fabricator in your net-work of associates for advice.  Your issues are too global for an easy answer via the forum.   Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROgzm.pepeStop now, and seek out a welder/fabricator in your net-work of associates for advice.  Your issues are too global for an easy answer via the forum.   Opus
Reply:He's a bot getting his post count up.. Notice the barely legible sentence. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2Miller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROgzm.pepeStop now, and seek out a welder/fabricator in your net-work of associates for advice.  Your issues are too global for an easy answer via the forum.   Opus
Reply:Flamers  -  How is he going to get the concrete in the tube ?  -  Opus
Reply:skip around while you weld, alternating sides it should come out great.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROFlamers  -  How is he going to get the concrete in the tube ?  -  Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROFlamers  -  How is he going to get the concrete in the tube ?  -  Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderI don't know it that is a rude quote. What if it is fully welded and looks like a boat.  That is  lot of metal.  The twisting is just one issue.I like it the gate.  Interested in seeing the outcome.  What type finish are you going to put on it?  I can see much difficulty getting a thorough finish.
Reply:thank you all for your good comments, here more pics of the gate: Attached Images
Reply:Right, tack one side then the other.  Keep a clamp on it when tacking.  In your first photos the bar is bending up because of the behavior of the tack weld.   Remember that metal has a high thermal coefficient of expansion.  This means is expands a lot when as it gets hot.  Molten metal then shrinks as it cools and solidifies.  When you put on a tack you are depositing a molten blob of metal that is fused to both parts. As this blob of molten metal cools it shrinks.  This is what caused the part to bend up opening the joint.  A good strong clamp properly applied will help reduce this - when tacking.  But do not expect a clamp to hold it when running a full bead.  So tack one side, adjust the clamp if necessary to bring it back to true then tack the other side.  Alternate the sides as you go - we see you did that - one tack on top, one tack on bottom.In later pictures the weld beads are not so good.  Slow down and let the metal puddle accross the joint as you go.  Not so slow as to permit a burn-through, but so that the puddle of molten metal flows and fuses to both pieces.  Do this in short sections skipping a distance then flip the gate over and do the same on the other side.  Flip again and fill in the segments skipped on side A then flip once more to fill in skipped segments on side B.  Yes, a lot of work but if you weld all the way accross one side before going to the other you may find the edge curling to one side again, regardless of the tacks.  In fact some tacks might crack.  So the game is go slow and weld alternating sections.You have a nice project and are learning a good skill.  Take it easy, go slowly and you will do well.- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROgzm.pepeStop now, and seek out a welder/fabricator in your net-work of associates for advice.  Your issues are too global for an easy answer via the forum.   Opus
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROFlamers  -  How is he going to get the concrete in the tube ?  -  Opus
Reply:That's a nice gate man. It's about as stout as good ol' Opus is a tool…Like Mondo said slow down and let it burn in. That is what those little lines are that pop up after you hit it with the flap disc. Didn't completely fuse. Do what he told you and you'll be golden.
Reply:Originally Posted by DystopiaThat's a nice gate man. It's about as stout as good ol' Opus is a tool…Like Mondo said slow down and let it burn in. That is what those little lines are that pop up after you hit it with the flap disc. Didn't completely fuse. Do what he told you and you'll be golden.
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoRight, tack one side then the other.  Keep a clamp on it when tacking.  In your first photos the bar is bending up because of the behavior of the tack weld.   Remember that metal has a high thermal coefficient of expansion.  This means is expands a lot when as it gets hot.  Molten metal then shrinks as it cools and solidifies.  When you put on a tack you are depositing a molten blob of metal that is fused to both parts. As this blob of molten metal cools it shrinks.  This is what caused the part to bend up opening the joint.  A good strong clamp properly applied will help reduce this - when tacking.  But do not expect a clamp to hold it when running a full bead.  So tack one side, adjust the clamp if necessary to bring it back to true then tack the other side.  Alternate the sides as you go - we see you did that - one tack on top, one tack on bottom.In later pictures the weld beads are not so good.  Slow down and let the metal puddle accross the joint as you go.  Not so slow as to permit a burn-through, but so that the puddle of molten metal flows and fuses to both pieces.  Do this in short sections skipping a distance then flip the gate over and do the same on the other side.  Flip again and fill in the segments skipped on side A then flip once more to fill in skipped segments on side B.  Yes, a lot of work but if you weld all the way accross one side before going to the other you may find the edge curling to one side again, regardless of the tacks.  In fact some tacks might crack.  So the game is go slow and weld alternating sections.You have a nice project and are learning a good skill.  Take it easy, go slowly and you will do well.- Mondo
Reply:Thats a nice looking gate. The warpage looks minimul from my garage. Everything looks really symetrical, straight and the miters are tight. The goose poop looked really straight also. How did you teach that goose to poop in a straight line???     Hey I'm kidding,   my Flux Core welds look the same xcept not as straight. Im not familiar with a slide gate. I would like to see the hinges or trolley whatever.For not doing much welding,  your floor looks a bit spalled? OA torch work is my guess. If you have any cement left over, you should smear some where the spalling is.Thats some Heavy Metal you got there. When do we get to see the slide gate part? BTW, be careful when you add the cement, its gonna make it Heavier Metal and you could strain your nutz. The doctor told me it was called worms in the basket
Reply:After a few days here more photos
Reply:ok, is your friend part of the cartel? jkI like the work, looks good!MillerMatic 212, Lincoln Precision TIG 225, Hypertherm 45XP
Reply:More images Attached Images
Reply:Final photos Attached Images
Reply:Nice work. I see you have a peep hole on the man door. I would suggest an OBSCURA type as it has a larger viewing angle and can be viewed from about four feet away. I would also instal one on the gate but thats just my two cents.Heres a link to a wide angle viewerhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/WIDE-ANGLE-S...item4abc826fd2Last edited by Insaneride; 10-14-2012 at 01:22 PM.Reason: spelling
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideNice work. I see you have a peep hole on the man door. I would suggest an OBSCURA type as it has a larger viewing angle and can be viewed from about four feet away. I would also instal one on the gate but thats just my two cents.Heres a link to a wide angle viewerhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/WIDE-ANGLE-S...item4abc826fd2
Reply:Wow those are nices gates and looks VERY secure. Well done  What ever happened to our old mate "STOP Seek specialist advice, your job is far too complicated to be answered here!! " I'm suprised he's not posted a reply congratulating you on a job well done
Reply:Originally Posted by Gerry1964Wow those are nices gates and looks VERY secure. Well done  What ever happened to our old mate "STOP Seek specialist advice, your job is far too complicated to be answered here!! " I'm suprised he's not posted a reply congratulating you on a job well done
Reply:Gzm.pepe, that is really nice. Good work!Thanks for sharing your project.Can I aks where you sourced the hardware - track and rollers?Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepGzm.pepe, that is really nice. Good work!Thanks for sharing your project.Can I aks where you sourced the hardware - track and rollers?Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by gzm.pepe. . .the rollers and the linear guide are from Italy the brand name is Comunello http://www.comunello.com/ . . .the rack, the motor and all remotes are from Italy too the brand name is Genius http://www.geniusg.com/,