feed wire to short?

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Hi everyone,I just broke out the hobart 135 yesterday and tried my hand at some mig. Its set up for Argon CO2 with 35 wire. While I was practicing, Im noticing my feed wire having to be really short to get a good clean bacon sound. When I say short, its about .25 or so. Im welding 1/8 mild 2" square tube, with the welder set to 4 and 21-22ish on the wire feed. Generally speaking the welds are pretty solid. After welding the seams for the table Im building, I ground the beads down to double check penetration and they're even throughout.Should I just increase the wire feed speed to compensate for the shortness? Thanks!Last edited by 63chevyII; 08-20-2012 at 10:23 AM.
Reply:1/4" to 3/8" is usually the normal stickout that I like to run for short arc.  .035 solid wire is really too big for that little machine, but your setting sounds about right to make it work. 1/8" will be the max under real world conditions you can expect to do with that machine. I think if you try to turn up the wire speed, you'll find you have too much wire for the volts you have available. Keep in mind that the longer the stick out, the colder the weld for a given voltage/ wire speed usually. You want to keep the gun in close to the steel, especially with a small machine like that so you get as much "heat" out of the weld as possible when doing thicker material like 1/8"..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the input! So while the 1/8 is pushing it with the Hobart 135 and 035 wire, if I went to a 23 wire, and used a torch to heat the metal, would that help my situation\penetration?Thanks again!
Reply:no. THe smaller wire wont penetrate as much as the 035 because it can't carry as much power.Preheat will help but still not as much as moving to a larger welder.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerno. THe smaller wire wont penetrate as much as the 035 because it can't carry as much power.Preheat will help but still not as much as moving to a larger welder.
Reply:The point wasn't use 035, the point was the smaller wire won't get better penetration, even if you add heat before welding.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thanks all for chiming inIf the 035 is to big for the HH135, should I be at an 030? The thought with the thinner wire was to allow better coverage giving me more time to move the puddle around.  I don't have pics, but the welds are on the hi side, toe in and bulbous-ish. Maybe it's not an equipment thing and it's technique?Sorry for the questions.. Total newbie
Reply:not enough heat. a typical problem with the 110 migs. Pics are our friends. they help us far more than words can.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Provided a particular machine is capable of running at a given current that is being discussed, you my get better (higher) current density with a smaller wire. In the proper application that will give you a little more 'dig' (more depth of fusion) right at the point of the arc. SO let's say you going for root penetration on a T configuration, yes may get better penetration with .030 on a small machine than .035. Any other depth of fusion outside the area you are directing the arc is dependent on the overall heat input which is basically amps×volts×time. So in that sense you'd have to do some serious thinking of which might be better, small vs large. Mighty iffy discussion probably. Overall .030 will probably give you a wider range of settings on the dials of a smaller machine."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:I agree with other people that .035 is awfully big for a 110. I'd expect better performance with .030, or you could try some flux core.Lincoln 175HD
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1That's true but the .035 wire is too big for the HH135
Reply:I've had no probs with .035 FCAW on 3/16 with a 110v MIG. Never tried it with solid wire.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerThe point wasn't use 035, the point was the smaller wire won't get better penetration, even if you add heat before welding.
Reply:you'll find you have too much wire for the volts you have available
Reply:This is not a personal attack, this is a learning lesson.
Reply:Originally Posted by SnuffyI've had no probs with .035 FCAW on 3/16 with a 110v MIG. Never tried it with solid wire.
Reply:Originally Posted by 63chevyIIThanks for info! Have any reading material you can recommend?
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1.035 flux core is hollow
Reply:Originally Posted by SnuffyI realize that cored wire is not solid wire. Just saying I've had some success on the thicker side of what a 110v mig can do with cored wire.What I was getting at was that he doesn't need a bigger machine to weld 1/8" especially not for a table.
Reply:Originally Posted by 63chevyIIThanks for info! Have any reading material you can recommend?
Reply:Hey everyone, Thanks for all of the info, I've got a LOT of reading to do! I swapped out the wire from a 035 to an 030, both were 70s6. The metal is 1/8 inch cold rolled mild, being welded with an HH135. Settings are labeled on the plate and wire size for comparison.  The plate was heated before all of the welds, heat on but joint, weld, heat the other, weld. What do you think? They don't look that much different to what I'm seeing. Am I doing something wrong here?
Reply:Put a small gap between the plates (1/16" or less) and you should see more penetration.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Try a spool of .020 or .025 MAX.  I think you will like the results.  That is what I use for solid wire in my Lincoln 140.   I don't go to .035 unless it is flux-core.- MondoPS: You do not need to pre-heat steel that is within the capability of that machine.  If you feel a need to preheat then you need a more powerful welder.mLast edited by Mondo; 10-15-2012 at 07:38 AM.Reason: Added PSMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:You will not be able to burn thru 1/8" with tight but joints with that machine. To do 1/8" but joints you will either have to bevel the edges and/or gap the pieces.The welds themselves are hard to see in detail on in those picts, but it looks like you may be rushing the weld and need to slow down a bit. You are also very inconsistent. The best of the bunch looks to be the bottom left one done with .030 wire. The lower right one done with .035 I can just barely see where each side to side/circle hit on the right hand side due to the poor detail in the pict. To me that tells me you were not letting the puddle build and were moving forward too quick.Post up some clear close ups of the beads and I might be able to make some more suggestions and point out where you are good vs where you need work..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hopefully this is a better pic of the welds, not counting the tacks, there are 5 beads in total. When I was building my table, the best welds were by far when there was a decent size gap, really making me slow down and collect the puddle and fill the space.These are with known gaps, 035 wire, HH135, settings were 4/18-20 wfthanks again for the helpDBump. I just wanted to get an opinion on the welds with the older wire (035) and the new wire (030)
Reply:The two circled look the best. The top one it's hard to tell if the toe on the right side wetted in well or if I'm seeing a shadow in the pict. The left side wetted in fine. The upper portion of the lower circled bead, the toes look good, but it's slightly erratic and might be a bit on the fast side. The slightly wider puddle is a bit better than the one above as far as that goes. Attached Images.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Prep your metal. Clean shiny metal to weld on (even on practice pieces). Bevel the edges of your joints. This allows for more penetration, and area for your filler to go into. They look cold to me, and the back shot on the test pieces prove it. there should be far more heat signature then you have. I also agree with DSW that you're going to fast. and you're inconsistant on both your speed, and your movement in the welds.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Prepping the metal better, gap between the plates, and more bevel, awesome, and thank you! For the speed and movement, should I pause a little on the outer side of the weld and quicker over the seam, then slow again? The little circle method seems to give the weld a bit of height
Reply:Depends a lot on your joint prep and weld style. This is one of those things that is very hard to show/explain over the internet, but is much easier to show in person. I adjust my travel speed and motion based on what I see the puddle doing. Too much material in the middle might mean I need to swing across the center faster, or it might mean I need to increase my forward speed, just to name a few possible options. Without seeing exactly what is happening, it's very hard to make good suggestions. A wider gap and/or a heavy bevel will also help with this as it will give the weld material some place to go except up. The issue here is you now have to watch out that you don't start to burn off the edges and open up a big key hole that you can't control. There is a fine line between getting full penetration, getting no penetration and burning big holes thru the plates. I tell the students when they get to their bevel plates that more than 90% of the time their problem is poor prep. Either the gap is too large/small, or their land is too small/large. An irregular  gap that is wide then narrow etc can also play havoc on their welds. It takes a bit of skill and the ability to really read the puddle to make adjustments on the fly when you have these issues..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan