Old machine from my father in law

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So, the father in-law passed a few weeks ago and this welding rig was sent to me.  I know the Miller Thunderbolt ac/dc is for stick welding, and the AIRCO box above it is set up for TIG.  Just from looking at the way it was setup when it arrived, I have to assume that the AIRCO actually plugs into the Miller and uses it for a power supply.  Other than that I have no idea how he had this rig setup.  It came to me with no manuals or instructions.  I know I have the power to run it as a TIG (ARC is no problem either) however, I don't want to just "plug it in" without knowing what its limits and specifications are.  Anyone out there seen a setup like this before?My welding machines (from left to right) :Craftsman wire feed welder - cheap little box that I learned to weld withMiller Thunderbolt and AIRCO seen above - Need the ARC for the heavy steel rod, angle, and tube I weld for projects.  The TIG I would like to use for the custom work that requires VERY precise welds.Miller MIG welder - I LOVE this machine!  Great for the sheet metal work I do the most  of.Last edited by rwmccormack; 07-13-2012 at 09:57 PM.
Reply:Not sure but i would say box on top is a high frequency stabilizer.But can't see good enough it pics to be certain.
Reply:Agreed. I'm almost certain thats a high frequency box for ac tig welding aluminum with the thunderbolt stick welder.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I just bought a Thunderbolt today from CL. It has a Wards Power-Kraft HF box mounted to it. The box is a spark gap oscillator which superimposes high frequency energy on the welding current by means of an air core coupling transformer. The secondary winding of the transformer is connected in series with the arc circuit and carries the full welding current. It is used for HF start and AC TIG. I'm thinking the box you have is the same thing. Here is a link to the one I picked up today.http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/tls/3136049189.htmlMillerMatic 135Handler 210 w/ DP3035 SpoolgunLincoln AC-225Primeweld TIG225xEverlast Power Arc 200Weldcraft TIG rigSmith American Classic O/AEvolution Rage 2 SawTD Cutmaster 52Miller Thunderbolt with HF Box
Reply:FWIW, the MIG on the far right isn't a Miller.  I agree, thats likely a HF box as an arc starter for TIG.  Get some tranquilizers and Blood Pressure meds ready before you attempt aluminum TIG with it.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Hmmmmm....  TIG ....for aluminum only?  or can I use it for welding stainless sheet steel as well?  Still haven't been able to find any manuals online for the box.  Sigh.......Guess it will take more time to find the info I need before I use that machine.  On the flip side, the stick welder works great.  I'm in the middle of building a 5 x 12 landscape trailer with it as we speak.And your right, the MIG welder is NOT a Miller.  I got that as a "Christmas Gift" last year from my wife.  She picked it up from Harbor Freight (so I can't complain too loudly or I'll be sleeping   in the shop with the dog).  It is a cheapo Chicago Electric MIG/Flux welder.  It does a very good job of welding 12 and 14 gauge steel and stainless.  Not very good for the 1/4 and 3/8 angle/tube I use for trailers but it is certainly good enough for the thin stuff.
Reply:It should be able to do mild, stainless, and aluminum. When I had my buzz box I was looking into doing the TIG conversion on it as well. The leads from the buzz box to the TIG unit just have to be switched between the DC and AC ports.What turned me off on the conversion is the scratch start, lack of gas control, and limited amp control.I am sure with enough tinkering and practice it can TIG just fine but like mentioned a few beverages, meds, and other calming agents may be needed.
Reply:Been a busy month at work, sorry I neglected to keep this thread updated.The latest on the search for info in this rig.....  Still haven't found the right manuals for the Airco.  To date I have found what seems like every model except the one I have.The bad news is that the replacement power cord he put on the Miller ARC welder wasn't the right gauge to handle 220v 50a.  while trying to weld 1/4 angle the cord started to melt.  Luckily I caugth it BEFORE it shorted out and have since replaced it.Still searching for the correct Airco manual, will post what I find.As for TIGing aluminum with this rig.  I don't normally work in aluminum.  90% of what I work with is sheet steel and sheet stainless, the rest of the time I am working with steel angle or tube.  Not ruling out aluminum, just not on the menu for now.  And Calming agents, beverages, and meds are ALWAYS needed in the shop.Last edited by rwmccormack; 09-06-2012 at 09:56 AM.
Reply:I've tried aluminum with a similar setup, a Lincoln tombstone with a Miller 25D1 hf box.  Sine wave, no amp control, scratch start.  It's nearly impossible to do.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:That HF unit is actually a rebadged Miller.  Likely an HF-15-1.http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o610g_mil.pdfYou own a couple welders for crying out loud - build a metal rack to support the thing and loose the 2x4s. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I have an old Lincoln 250 tombstone with a high frequency box on top. Other than not having a foot control  it works very well. I added a motor to the heat control on the welder so that I can change it with a pedal but its not fast and its not the same as a regular foot control. However it does let me weld aluminum with it .      It has a constant loss water cooler on it.  Mac
Reply:You own a couple welders for crying out loud - build a metal rack to support the thing and loose the 2x4s. [/QUOTE]I know, I know.   I should have re-welded it already   Seems like I can't get caught up with the work and projects I need to get done.  I could use about 2 clones of myself and I MIGHT get caught up before Christmas.......... of 2013!On a sad note, the Craftsman wire feed welder FINALLY lost the magical blue smoke.  I've used that thing since 1993 and have MORE than made my money back.  She powers up, but the drive wheel for the wire feed doesn't turn anymore.  (sigh)  Now I have 6 spools of .035 flux core wire that I can't use.  Of course....I could look into replacing the dead parts and resurrect the trusty old box......might be worth it, then again, it might not.  I'll dig out the manual and see if I can even get parts for the thing.  I taught my daughter to weld with it, so it has sentimental value for that at least AND it was very portable for those small, off-site jobs that need to be done.   Hmmmmm  Repair or replace?Last edited by rwmccormack; 09-09-2012 at 04:30 PM.
Reply:Well, an update.  Fixed the craftsman, turned out it was a single wire that got a little too hot.  I replaced it and the old girl lives again.  I replaced the wiring in the ARC welder and used it to reweld my trailer frame.Here it is at 50% complete:And again at 90% complete:All that is left is to add the expanded mesh to the tailgate, attach the tailgate, and manufature a latch mechanism.The black and white pile of steel on the right and the flat rectangular piece of white steel are from the "Box" (yes, I did say STEEL!) that the previous owner had build onto the frame.  Without a load, the trailer weighted 2200 pounds on an axle rated for 2500 pounds.  He couldn't understand why the original axle bent, go figure.  About the only thing original is the frame and the decking, I have replaced and rebuilt everything else.  New axle, all new wiring harness and lights, spring shackles, leaf springs, tailgate/ramp, and spare tire carriers.  I mounted 2 spare tires because I had them from another project and they were just sitting on a shelf.  After the tailgate/ramp is done, I intend to build a box for the tongue so I can store straps and other necessities in it.For those of you who PM'd me, the shop is 44x70.  I have 300amp service and have only recently had the concrete floor put in ( at a cost of $3800).  I have outlets, lights, and air lines running to every area of the shop and hope to have a wood burning stove installed before this winter.  So far, I don't have water installed YET!. I have to figure out how I can keep the pipes from freezing before I install that.   As much as i would like to install A/C in the whole building, that will have to wait until i win the lottery.  To get spray foam on all of the walls will cost $50k, it is only $10K cheaper if I do it myself so that project will have to wait.I hope I answered all of the questions, if not, PM me again and I'll try to answer when I have a free minute.In the 90% complete picture, you can see the 4x6 posts are installed for the "project room" I am building for my wife's stained glass/glass bead making addiction.  Out of all my floor space, she is getting a 12x36 climate controlled room.  Otherwise, I end up tripping over her stuff when I have a large project like this trailer to work on.  She is already mad at me for knocking one of her stained glass windows off a shelf when a winch cable broke.  So, I decided to build her an area just for her stuff, I figured this way it will be protected from exploding grinding wheels, flying tools, or other missiles launched by me.Last edited by rwmccormack; 09-18-2012 at 01:04 PM.
Reply:Good news, I actually found a copy of the Airco Manual at a yard sale  and bought it for fifty cents.  The cover is missing, but it has the table of contents so I took a chance.  Not surprisingly, I could have saved myself the trouble and just downloaded it from Miller as you suggested.  I checked and aside from the cover and the errata pages, it is exactly the same manual.  I should have listened to you guys and not have been so OCD about having the Airco manual.  Sorry, it is a failing of mine.  I also downloaded the owners manual that matched the Serial Number on the Thunderbolt, so now I feel better about using it.Last edited by rwmccormack; 09-21-2012 at 08:46 PM.
Reply:Well, it took some time, but I got the welder rack finished.  Now all of my welders are in one place and I have room to put "welder bits and bobs" in one place.  The rack is tall enough that I can reach all of my equipment easily.  Now all I have left to do is fabricate the tank tiedowns for the welding gases and and a couple of shelves/drawers to further organized stuff.Bad news, the Airco rig is inoperative.  No matter what I do, I can't get it to power up.  I'll need to spend some time troubleshooting it and then see if I can even find parts for it.  In the end, it may be better to just buy a Tig welder   Would prefer not, but hey it didn't cost me anything so I guess I shouldn't complain.Here is a pic of the new welding rack
Reply:Originally Posted by rwmccormackYou own a couple welders for crying out loud - build a metal rack to support the thing and loose the 2x4s.
Reply:You really don't need the HF box to do basic scratch start DC tig on steel and stainless. Tozzi did a very good post that shows everything you need to do tig with that Thunderbolt. To do alum tig you will need the HF box though.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=38106.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I had some time this weekend and took the Airco HF box apart.  Found a disconnected wire and reconnected it.  It powers up  when the tanks arrive on Friday, I will get it set up and test it out.  @ Duanneb55   Thank you.  Its not done yet, but now that I have cleared some of the backlog out of the shop I can take the time to play a little.  Believe it or not, the rack was built from the steel doors that were on the trailer project (above) and scrap 1 1/2" square tube.@DSW Excellent thread!  I must admit that I didn't think you could TIG with a stick welder until I received this setup from my father-in-law.  This was a topic that wasn't covered in school.  According to my Father-in-law "sometimes you need to step away from all of the new fangled doo dads and listen to the old timers to learn something".  I guess he was right, again. Last edited by rwmccormack; 10-16-2012 at 09:53 AM.
Reply:[QUOTE  Edited  Likely an HF-15-1.Edited:[/QUOTE]duaneb55I was looking at the miller link you provided and I find it "funny" they say "component hf" "and hf mounting board" but not what the device is. It's almost like they are trying to "hide" somthing.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Have you thought of large bat insulation like they use in a steel building? I did a 75'x150' building and the insulation package for the hole building was $6000. Or Adrian foam products makes a white foam board with a foil facing in 1/2" to 4" thick In my shop I put white steel siding on the cieling then blew 16" in.Last edited by Jo Diesel; 10-17-2012 at 10:03 AM.Reason: made aditionMiller 180,Esab 300I TIG Lincoln Stick [1950's} Victor Torches, Dewalt chop saw, Enco 9x48 Mill,  48x60 home shop with Gantry crane and Pit.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jo DieselHave you thought of large bat insulation like they use in a steel building? I did a 75'x150' building and the insulation package for the hole building was $6000. Or Adrian foam products makes a white foam board with a foil facing in 1/2" to 4" thick In my shop I put white steel siding on the cieling then blew 16" in.
Reply:Well, I got the numbers for putting walls, insulation, and a ceiling in the shop as suggested by Jo Diesel.  Total cost will be right at $11k.  I can rent the blower to insulate the roof for $100 over a weekend and I have a line on some 300 pounds of cellulose from a contractor friend of mine.  Not enough to do the whole ceiling, but for 100 bucks, I'm not gonna pass it up.  Thanks for the GREAT Suggestion Jo!