Lincoln is not playing around !!!!!

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This is amazing http://www.lincolnelectric.com/vrtex360/default.aspI.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:That is something I would like to see.Hope it come's on tour at the NHRA Lincoln display at the race.
Reply:This could save so much money in material costs that it would pay for itself in a short period of time.I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:I've used it. It's ok. It's limited in the paramiters that you can virtual weld with. Tried setting it to what we use at the shop, wouldn't go that high. It also doesn't like to recognize a dragging technique. It gave me a failing grade trying to mimic the welds I do at work. My welds are pressure tested to several thousand pounds on a hydrstatic tester, and xray-ed, so I know they're good. Lincolns  virtual reality welder is a nice place to start, but theres no substitute for real world experience. There's a european company called Fronius that also has a welding simulator. I liked that it had a series of lights that gave you something to point the torch at and told you how to adjust your angle. But once again, it was limited in it's scope, no substitute for real world welding.I would hate for schools to replace real welders with these things. I can just see a student going from one of these  to a real welder only to discover " hey welding is Hot! and those sparks really burn! Welding isn't for me"But a few hours on one of these befor using a real welder could help new students get feel for travel speeds and angles without turning perfectly good material into scrap.
Reply:Originally Posted by Grimm1I've used it. It's ok. It's limited in the paramiters that you can virtual weld with. Tried setting it to what we use at the shop, wouldn't go that high. It also doesn't like to recognize a dragging technique. It gave me a failing grade trying to mimic the welds I do at work. My welds are pressure tested to several thousand pounds on a hydrstatic tester, and xray-ed, so I know they're good. Lincolns  virtual reality welder is a nice place to start, but theres no substitute for real world experience. There's a european company called Fronius that also has a welding simulator. I liked that it had a series of lights that gave you something to point the torch at and told you how to adjust your angle. But once again, it was limited in it's scope, no substitute for real world welding.I would hate for schools to replace real welders with these things. I can just see a student going from one of these  to a real welder only to discover " hey welding is Hot! and those sparks really burn! Welding isn't for me"But a few hours on one of these befor using a real welder could help new students get feel for travel speeds and angles without turning perfectly good material into scrap.
Reply:I messed with a prototype of that system in the fall, they have a way to go to get the graphics right, the weld really doesn’t look like a weld, can’t stick the electrode etc.  If it weren’t $46000.00 it might be something for educational institutions to have but you  can buy a lot of welders, metal and rods for that kind of $$.Their touting it as being “Green”…….
Reply:i hope Lincoln isn't touting this as a first bc i've seen it before... heck, i've seen it discussed here on weldingweb before, consensus is that its a good safe place to start for people who never welded before, but they will quickly outgrow it.
Reply:Originally Posted by EyesolatorI messed with a prototype of that system in the fall, they have a way to go to get the graphics right, the weld really doesn’t look like a weld, can’t stick the electrode etc.  If it weren’t $46000.00 it might be something for educational institutions to have but you  can buy a lot of welders, metal and rods for that kind of $$.Their touting it as being “Green”…….
Reply:LOL.  So where do we sign up to take our  3G/4G VRAW unlimited V1.1 structural cert tests?Do we qualify to weld Virtual Structures in Siezmic Zones with that cert, or do we need the V1.8?Last edited by DesertRider33; 12-21-2009 at 03:32 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33LOL.  So where do we sign up to take our  3G/4G VRAW unlimited V1.1 structural cert tests?Do we qualify to weld Virtual Structures in Siezmic Zones with that cert, or do we need the V1.8?
Reply:I guess it would be like trying to join a band and telling them you are pretty awesome at guitar hero.  Tater
Reply:Tree hugger nonsense.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparky#1In one year of classes 46K would go real fast.
Reply:Here ya go... I saw it at the Route 66 Nationals. Joliet Illinois. The Local 597 Pipefitters have a traveling display for these. I'm a Local 130 plumber and got some free tickets to the event. The U.A. sponsored the event. This is the only picture I have. A buddy of mine brought his son. Attached Images
Reply:Pack a couple of those baby's in a school, and guess who pays for them??????Uh.........................Oh yeah, tuition pays for the new toys.  And who pays tuition?????You can virtually take that to the bank46.000 will buy a lot of scrap to practice on.  New steel..........about 100,000lbs.  Used steel.......230,000lbs.I'm afraid that programers and designers are coming up with new ways to justify their existence.  Whether the product is of real value, or not.  Kind of like Blackberries, and the new I Phone.  Who really needs this stuff????They tell you that you need it, and y'all climb onboard.  Sorta like LemmingsI score this one a perfect 10 Attached ImagesLast edited by farmersamm; 12-21-2009 at 09:04 PM.Reason: forgot the pic ^^%%$#$#%^*"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Until they can make a virtual weld look like a real weld that thing is little more than a toy.  I train 40 welders a year on about 10K, the material is donated but even if I bought it you might get up to 20K.  An remember it’s one welding station that can only be used by one welder at a time, imagine buying 20 of those things! I’m a techno geek love the bells and whistles on things and what I used in Sept. of this year will teach a person how to move at consistent travel speed and little more.  Welders react or travel ahead based on what they see and what you see has little resemblance to a real weld.  Until you can pick up your virtual weld and examine it, it’s of little value in training. You ain’t gonna learn to weld using one of those things, a toy at best……..  But it’s GREEN!
Reply:I think you guys are reading a little too far into this thing,it's a simulator not an absolute substitution for welding. The same thing is used by the military to train pilots.I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:Originally Posted by EyesolatorUntil they can make a virtual weld look like a real weld that thing is little more than a toy.  I train 40 welders a year on about 10K, the material is donated but even if I bought it you might get up to 20K.  An remember it’s one welding station that can only be used by one welder at a time, imagine buying 20 of those things! I’m a techno geek love the bells and whistles on things and what I used in Sept. of this year will teach a person how to move at consistent travel speed and little more.  Welders react or travel ahead based on what they see and what you see has little resemblance to a real weld.  Until you can pick up your virtual weld and examine it, it’s of little value in training. You ain’t gonna learn to weld using one of those things, a toy at best……..  But it’s GREEN!
Reply:While I didn't find it terribly practical, I did think it was fun. I'm waiting for them to come out with a version of it for the Wii.
Reply:SparkyJuniors and Seniors in High School.  By in large the juniors are beginners, but some have a little welding experience and the seniors have been with me for a year.I really can’t comment on the flight simulator and it’s use.  But from what I have seen at least they move around on a hydraulic platform to simulate motion and what’s the difference if the landscape is simulated.I'm not trying to be a jerk about this and I think Lincoln is going in the right direction but they have a long way to go to simulate real welding.  And at 46K they need to do a lot better.
Reply:I contacted Nintendo. They werent interested at the time. Of course if they could get 46k per game who knows. They did suggest contacting one of the software developers.I have not had a chance to try the system however the cost seems hard to justify. Of course the trailer that I used to teach out of cost well over 200K with 7 booths and no torch, poor ventilation, or classroom.Of course one nice things about welding machines over VR stuff is you can BUILD real stuff.
Reply:In the mid '80's I saw a practice unit that had a stylus and a small target that moved forward and side to side driven by small motors.  The student had to hold the stylus as close as possible to the little target.  it was a waste of money.  This simulator is getting closer.    I really don't see the value.  Beginning students need to be exposed to the noise, smell, and sparks early on.  Many in regular programs realize that they really don't want to be a welder after wasting several weeks and taking up space.  A simulator like this might be useful for teaching motions after an initial month of practical experience.
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechmanIn the mid '80's I saw a practice unit that had a stylus and a small target that moved forward and side to side driven by small motors.  The student had to hold the stylus as close as possible to the little target.  it was a waste of money.  This simulator is getting closer.    I really don't see the value.  Beginning students need to be exposed to the noise, smell, and sparks early on.  Many in regular programs realize that they really don't want to be a welder after wasting several weeks and taking up space.  A simulator like this might be useful for teaching motions after an initial month of practical experience.
Reply:Originally Posted by EyesolatorI messed with a prototype of that system in the fall, they have a way to go to get the graphics right, the weld really doesn’t look like a weld, can’t stick the electrode etc.  If it weren’t $46000.00 it might be something for educational institutions to have but you  can buy a lot of welders, metal and rods for that kind of $$.Their touting it as being “Green”…….
Reply:Originally Posted by Gerald AustinOf course one nice things about welding machines over VR stuff is you can BUILD real stuff.My 1st VR trainer was a pencil held in a stinger. Drag or push slightly uphill, don't let the washer fall or put a mark on the paper.Last edited by Gerald Austin; 12-25-2009 at 07:41 AM.Reason: sp
Reply:What people refuse to understand is this is an intro to welding not a replacement.I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:Originally Posted by daddyTree hugger nonsense.