Anyone here experienced with plasma welding?

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I'd like to pick your brain a bit, I don't have any experience plasma welding but I am a proficient tig weldor adn would like to get into plasma welding, from what I read it sounds like its superior to tig welding especially for thin material. Thanks
Reply:Hi Ya Passenger I have some experience with it but its hard to explain the process. Here the company that our cnc shop does business wiith.http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/welding/plasma.htmCo-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Very good for thin material but machines are very costly. The manual torch alone is close to Two thousand dollars. Argon for plasma gas and Argon/Hydrogen mix for shielding gas.You should be able to find alot of information on the process if you do a search. I have 2 thermadyne machines and I have not had any issues with them. Hard to justify cost for general welding applications.
Reply:Yep VERY Expensive but the welding quality is second to none. We use our's for aircraft, super thick metals, ISO 9001 crap.But actual cost of production is less than most welding. We use helium & argonLast edited by specter; 03-04-2009 at 11:15 AM.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Gotta chime in here. Yes, it is very expensive, highly technical equipment.  In our welding  library there is an article on tips to optimize your plasma arc welding torch The other thing to keep in mind is that because of the nature of the technology--  that the torch creates a narrow plasma stream that is electrically conductive, transferring an arc to the workpiece--  it accepts few tolerances.  We've found that with our customers who utilize this process it is imperative that only the highest quality parts be used, because if they don't fit just right, or don't match up you'll end up with arc starting problems at a minimum or premature torch failure at worst...  and, at $500 plus for a torch body, well... you can see where things can add up rather quickly.-----------------------Carmen Electrodewww.CarmenElectrode.comand the boss blogs at  www.JoeWelder.comall powered by  www.Arc-Zone.com
Reply:I can't speak to micro plasma welding or small manual plasma systems, but I worked with automated plasma arc welding of automotive components.  We had six different weld joints, and there were three machines cranking out 400 to 700 parts per hour for each joint type.  The welds were mostly pulsed current with either around 100 amps or 200 amps peak depending on the thickness of the workpiece.Plasma is good for automation like this because the system will maintain a tiny 10 amp pilot arc between the tungsten and the copper orifice tip all the time and instantly fire off the main welding arc to the workpiece with no high frequency needed.  Also the plasma tungsten would last for a couple thousand of the short fast 8 second welds we made.We welded in the transferred arc and conduction melt mode.  In transferred arc the welding arc is transferred between the tungsten and the work, like TIG.  In non-transferred plasma, which I think is limited to thin materials, the arc is maintained between the tungsten and the copper orifice tip, like the pilot arc but higher welding current is used, and the ionized plasma jet from the orifice provides the heat for melting.  Conduction melt mode means that the arc provides heat to the surface of the workpiece and conduction of heat in workpiece produces the weld pool.  The other plasma melt mode is keyhole mode.  In keyhole mode the current and plasma gas flow are adjusted to vaporize a narrow hole through the workpiece, and as torch moves along the molten metal fills in behind and creates the weld.  As you can imagine this is a very precarious balance of precise weld settings and keyhole welding is limited to mechanized processes and square butt joints with excellent fit-upSo, our setup and weld results were very similar to TIG welding, no difference in the weld at all.  Plasma was purely used due to the high production automation.  As others have said the equipment is expensive.  The torch is water cooled because the tungsten is contained behind a small copper orifice tip that would melt easily if not chilled.  The machine torches we used were good for maybe 200 to 300 amps, I can't remember, but the tungsten was 3/16" diameter, probably not cheap, and not available down at the local welding supply.
Reply:Hi Ya pulsar that looks like the picture on the pro-fusion site. Thanks for additional info on the plasma welding process. I always thought that picture would make a great avatarCo-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Passenger, there is a member at Shopfloortalk  (click) that actually has one that he currently uses and is in his shop.  This was a couple years ago; he bought a package deal with several machines, sold some, I think he might still have one or two left that are available.  In any case, if you post up there,  I think you could get some real-world, current information.
Reply:Was it Shade?http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...=plasma+welderEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Was it Shade?http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...=plasma+welder
Reply:I figger Shade can take being on the "Spot" and iffin' he still had any for sale it "could" helpEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1I figger Shade can take being on the "Spot" and iffin' he still had any for sale it "could" help
Reply:Originally Posted by mark8310Passenger, there is a member at Shopfloortalk  (click) that actually has one that he currently uses and is in his shop.  This was a couple years ago; he bought a package deal with several machines, sold some, I think he might still have one or two left that are available.  In any case, if you post up there,  I think you could get some real-world, current information.
Reply:I am an automated tig welder. We had a automated plasma they are hard to keep running because if you don't have perfect argon coverage you will have problem's, as for the destortion I can't tell the difference if I have that problem turn down my tig welder. You still have to use tungstion for the price I would just buy a good tig welder and just turn it down.
Reply:don't know about strait scoop but I have a shop tech that maintains all of our equipment daily needs but we also have service contracts for regularly scheduled maintence. That is properly the most important thing with the units.But as far as meeting all Mil Specs, Mil-Q,  Mil-I, and ISO, the plasma welder is great! Very Consistent, precise quality welds.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Not putting anybody else down here,,,,  just from my years on these various boards, the first name that came to mind.   If you wanna be known as a plasma-weld expert, start posting up.   If you are a plasma-welding expert,,,,,   then why don't you start educating the rest of us here?????  Either one of you, you obviously have an expertise very few others here have,,,,   And one of you guys in particular,,,,,   instead of testing chinese welders out,,,,,  ,,,,,  why don't you start your own new thread,,,,,  explaining and demonstrating the plasma welding process?????   I for one, would be glued to the screen,,,,   reading and watching.Last edited by mark8310; 03-04-2009 at 10:18 PM.
Reply:Personally I do not recall anyone professing to being an plasma welding expert!!Which why I referred  passenger in my post #2 to go to a company that specializes in plasma welding systems and that could answer his questions.  They are the company our shop uses because of Their Expertise. Our shop also uses Hypertherm Plasma Cutters and yes we rely on them as the experts in their field.If your interested in ",,,,, explaining and demonstrating the plasma welding process" I suggest you go to the same site I referred Passenger to: http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/welding/plasma.htm  they have spent years explaining and demostrating the plasma welding process throughout the world just like Hypertherm  ( http://www.hypertherm.com ) has spent over 40 years explaining and demonstatingthe Plasma Cutting process.You can go to both of their sites and as you say " I for one, would be glued to the screen,,,, reading and watching."Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Well, Propulsion implied you knew something about it, maybe I just read too much into it.  In any case, I think it would be a neat thread to start.
Reply:Wow, thanks for all the advice guys, much more than I expected.I still have a few questions though if you guys wouldn't mind answering.Besides the initial sticker price for the machine and torch, what are consumables like? Sounds like tungsten life is significantly increased with plasma. And it seems like most if not all the torches are watercooled which means collets and o rings should last a long time.Looks liek they all have two regulators for argon, how much argon can I expect a plasma welder to burn through, I usually run around 20cfh on my tig torches, I assume the plasma needs at least that much, if they need more, how much more?Now looking at plasma torch consumables I haven't seen any with gas lenses yet, not to say they don't exist but I have to ask, why don't i see them? I always use the biggest gas lense possible, and have a series of trailing shields I use for different materials, I am really anal about proper gas coverage.Now the only drawback I really see so far is that you can't pull the tungsten out to get into tight areas and corner joints... Not really a big deal, I plan on keeping my dynasty machinesBut I am starting to do more and more production work and I am working on building a automatic machine, but now I am starting to think I should be using a plasma welder instead of my trusty dynastys 300dx. We do mostly .065" wall SS tube joints but have started doing a lot of overlay work for pistons and cylinders for other machine shops lately.This was welded by hand, and I am doing about 30 of these pieces at a time now, and think plasma would be better in the sense I would have less heat in the work piece and better penetration.I also have started doing more tool and die repair, having a machine with a very stable arc from .5 to 10amps would be a major plus right now.I appreciate the helps fellas
Reply:Well looks like I just got myself a thermal arc ultima 150! Brand new, suppose I'll be answering the rest my questions here very shortly.
Reply:Just wanted to bump this up there again, hoping someone can shed some light on some of my questions from post 19. Also with this new ultima150 plasma welding unit I bought I have aquired a synerweld2100 controller, a jetline wirefeeder, and a positioner so I can setup for automated work.Now on the torch arm front what are you guys using. There are these slick units:http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...1216_1308_1313A bit pricey but the torch retract is something I would want, only thing is you would need a set of linear scales or something to easily position the mounting arm.Any suggestions fellas?
Reply:Bumpin it up again, anyone have some answers or have I wandered into the "end of free information on automated welding"...?
Reply:My work (edit was my work until i got laid off last tuesday) uses the ultima 150 welding recuperators for microturbines. Its been about 6 or 7years since i worked in that department but we used the plasma welder for stainless steel with a thickness of .006 and .008. For our particular application we used a argon pilot arc along with a shield gas of 98/2. We had two banner welders which where automated but we had to do all the finish welding by hand. We had a pulse box added to all our welders I believe set at about 125 pulses a sec. We used a gas shield on all our torches. All the welds were autogenous unless you screwed up then you had to use filler. I will ask a guy at work what the gas settings are its been so long I cant remember what we set them to. If there is anything else you need to know post what it is and if I can help I will try. I am not an expert about plasma welding and am not trying to act like one just trying to pass on what I know.Last edited by down19992000; 04-05-2009 at 05:50 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by down19992000My work (edit was my work until i got laid off last tuesday) uses the ultima 150 welding recuperators for microturbines. Its been about 6 or 7years since i worked in that department but we used the plasma welder for stainless steel with a thickness of .006 and .008. For our particular application we used a argon pilot arc along with a shield gas of 98/2. We had two banner welders which where automated but we had to do all the finish welding by hand. We had a pulse box added to all our welders I believe set at about 125 pulses a sec. We used a gas shield on all our torches. All the welds were autogenous unless you screwed up then you had to use filler. I will ask a guy at work what the gas settings are its been so long I cant remember what we set them to. If there is anything else you need to know post what it is and if I can help I will try. I am not an expert about plasma welding and am not trying to act like one just trying to pass on what I know.
Reply:The Tool and Die shop I worked for picked up a plasma unit for very thin, straight pieces.  They machined a sliding guide block and basic torch holder.  Put the parts in the fixture, strike your arc, slide the block back manually, and done.  Basically welding by hand, only you're not actually holding the torch.Originally Posted by SupeThe Tool and Die shop I worked for picked up a plasma unit for very thin, straight pieces.  They machined a sliding guide block and basic torch holder.  Put the parts in the fixture, strike your arc, slide the block back manually, and done.  Basically welding by hand, only you're not actually holding the torch.
Reply:Have a look at Gullco.com, in particular the automated rotary weld system. it may be what you are looking for but they are not cheap about 30K.  the weld positioner is also programable so you may be able to get away with it and a standard torch holder but the auto retract feature would be nice. but there is always another way to skin a cat ( cheaper too). I am in the same boat as you are just getting into the PAW game and with the same unit too. The application that i will be using it on is 0.100" wall titanium tube.