Need Advice on how to repair cracked rame on 2 car hauler

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i have a 32ft trailer with 6in channel and the upper frame cracked straight through in front of the wheel where the lower frame ends. Its under the front of the fender and cant be seen in the pic. How should I repair it?? Ill be stick welding with a dynasty 200. thanks Attached Images"The Name of Jesus is a lightning rod because The Name represents the division of life between good and evil, God and Satan, light and darkness, righteousness and sin, heaven and hell"
Reply:Why did it fail?  Was it overloaded?  Did it break in a place of damage?  Prior collision? Along a prior weld? A close up would help as well.Harbor Freight Inverter 130 amp DC stick/tig (sold, really!)Lincoln Square Wave Tig 175 AC/DC stick/Tig
Reply:Originally Posted by WANNAWELDi have a 32ft trailer with 6in channel and the upper frame cracked straight through in front of the wheel where the lower frame ends. Its under the front of the fender and cant be seen in the pic. How should I repair it?? Ill be stick welding with a dynasty 200. thanks
Reply:It was probably overloaded i bought it cheap with a subpar repair job Should i just reinforce it with angle or channel on the inside? Attached Images"The Name of Jesus is a lightning rod because The Name represents the division of life between good and evil, God and Satan, light and darkness, righteousness and sin, heaven and hell"
Reply:I'm looking at that last pict and seeing the cross member (?) right at the crack location. I'm wondering if undercut or some other stress riser is a partial cause of the crack. That combined with flexing was a possible culprit. The larger crack at the bottom would tend to lead me to believe it started there from what little I can see in the picts. I think it's key you figure out what caused the issue rather than simply tossing a bandaid on the crack and calling it "good".I'm hoping Jason (Blackwolf)  or Neil (Wello) chime in on this. They'd be the two here that come to mind 1st that I'd check with on a repair like this. Both have done heavy trailer repairs. I've got a few ideas, but I know Neil does heavy trailer repairs almost daily, and Jason knows his stuff about these sort of things also..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Fatigue?
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI'm looking at that last pict and seeing the cross member (?) right at the crack location..
Reply:I would put a 1/2" stiffener plate in the c channel and then grind a groove into the crack and then fill with E7018. http://www.framessteel.com/glossary/...ER-Layout1.jpgOr weld a 6"x 6"x 1/2 plate on the web of the C-channel and 1"x6" on the flanges. I'm no engineer but that would be stronger then just welding the cracks.Al
Reply:Originally Posted by AltheWelderI would put a 1/2" stiffener plate in the c channel and then grind a groove into the crack and then fill with E7018. http://www.framessteel.com/glossary/...ER-Layout1.jpgOr weld a 6"x 6"x 1/2 plate on the web of the C-channel and 1"x6" on the flanges. I'm no engineer but that would be stronger then just welding the cracks.Al
Reply:WoW, optical illusion.  I couldn't comprehend what I was looking at in the pictures until I saved a copy to my desktop then rotated it left 90°.  Now I can clearly see we are looking into a channel section.  Even as posted I can see that now.  It is funny how a three dimensional object may appear differently when displayed as a flat two dimensional image.Photo #2, at far right I see a weld bead on the top corner of the C-channel.  Is this supposed to be securing something on the outside of the web?- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I know what you mean Mondo. When I 1st saw the 2nd pict, it looked like there were two cracks on two different pieces. I had a whole reply typed out when I suddenly "saw" what it really is when I walked back from answering the phone. The close in detail is great for showing the crack, but there's really no good references to give it perspective. That combined with the odd orientation made it easy to misinterpret the pict at 1st.I think the weld you see is the previous attempt to "patch" the crack. Originally Posted by WANNAWELD i bought it cheap with a subpar repair job ...
Reply:What a terrible place to terminate one of  two channels. I suppose a low deck was the thought.From what I can  see, I'd probably mostly consider a trapezoid shaped fish-plate, but a big one.The plate would start where the channel is double and extending beyond the fender to at least the rear spring hanger. The fender would then attach to the plate. For aesthetic reasons the plate's end angles should match the fender's edge angles.  It's busy in the axle area so a plate that drops as low as the bottom channel will probably need a few notches and cut-outs, so the plate will have to be tall to retain its strength.Plan B might be a massive angle shape, with the suspension brackets relocated  to a leg of the angle, but that'd be a lot more work than the large plate.Plan C might be to add a truss that's about 12" above the deck and extends from double channel to passed rear spring hanger. Granted, the truss would be an obvious add-on patch, and could interfere with side loading, but it'd be  easy to build.Anyway, whatever the fix, it  needs to add height to the single channel.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 10-20-2012 at 09:43 AM.
Reply:yes it was previously just vertically welded together and a square plate welded on the outside.  i grinded the weld down on the inide the plate on the outside is holding it together.  Here are some more pics Attached ImagesLast edited by WANNAWELD; 10-20-2012 at 12:35 PM."The Name of Jesus is a lightning rod because The Name represents the division of life between good and evil, God and Satan, light and darkness, righteousness and sin, heaven and hell"
Reply:my comment in the other post goes along with post #12 here.  When channel and spring hanger are used as pictured in post #13 the channel is supposed to be boxed in.  Not sure what the rule of thumb for that, if is all the way across all three hangers of just a couple of inches for each.  That is just a general observation.Fran
Reply:For some reason (stress riser? undercut?) it seems like it's flexing and getting fatigued where the crack is. I'd want to address the (excess?) flexion and fatigue at the site of the crack with whatever repair I chose.
Reply:Well it looks like i have to step up my welding skills, Anyone in the san diego area hahah"The Name of Jesus is a lightning rod because The Name represents the division of life between good and evil, God and Satan, light and darkness, righteousness and sin, heaven and hell"
Reply:Originally Posted by fran...k.my comment in the other post goes along with post #12 here.  When channel and spring hanger are used as pictured in post #13 the channel is supposed to be boxed in.  Not sure what the rule of thumb for that, if is all the way across all three hangers of just a couple of inches for each.  That is just a general observation.Fran
Reply:Anyone know were I can learn the proper fish plate techniquez/ from my understanding you just weld the top and botom?  should i weld up holesin the plate as well?Last edited by WANNAWELD; 10-20-2012 at 04:22 PM."The Name of Jesus is a lightning rod because The Name represents the division of life between good and evil, God and Satan, light and darkness, righteousness and sin, heaven and hell"
Reply:Well not hard to learn. Stretched 2 18wheeler trucks and 1Wilson cattle hauler 8ft X 50ft long. First clean up all area to brite metal. Take stress off crack and block trailer highenough to get under to weld comfortbly. Take grinder or my fav air gouger. Cut groove in crack,clean out with grinder. Weld crack with 6010 or 6011 root pass, 1/8 rod ok. Then grind down and reweld over wth 7018. Grind dwn almost flush. Cut out fishplate from 1/4" plate bigger or longer with both look like  ends coming to point,look like long diamond, narrow enough to weld both sideswth 7018.  I cut long slots in plate but not at weld up. Set in place tackdown and weld out alternating end to end and side to side.leave 1/2 not welded on point plate will crack out if welded here from stress. For safety sake do both sides and both frame rails common problem on these trailers I ve seen 3 like this at auction and with same repairs.
Reply:also top and bottom of rail at cracks may plate past axles by 6"
Reply:Thanks for the reply! Just to be clear, I need to just weld down halfway on the points of the fish plate?"The Name of Jesus is a lightning rod because The Name represents the division of life between good and evil, God and Satan, light and darkness, righteousness and sin, heaven and hell"
Reply:Do not weld to the end square off tips  If you weld them out to the tip it will crack there too.  Plug weld in plate on either side of cracks. is there enough room to add center frame and weld crooss members and deck plate back in?
Reply:What's the status of this repair?  Is this still in process or done?  If done do you have any pics of the final work?Thanks!- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:not started yet. I got to figure out how 2 run power to my welder in a location i can reach the trailer. I called Kaufman trailer and they acted like they never heard of this happening to one of their trailers? Ive seen one with the same damage and others have said on here that its a common problem with there trailers??? They wanted me to box it with 5" channel??Last edited by WANNAWELD; 11-12-2012 at 07:04 PM."The Name of Jesus is a lightning rod because The Name represents the division of life between good and evil, God and Satan, light and darkness, righteousness and sin, heaven and hell"