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9 months ago I bought a Lincoln Tig Welder from Lowes for my business. IT is a huge transformer type and cost around $5000. Didn't do much research on the machine. I just heard TIG was the best for aluminum.I've watched videos and read information on the internet, but I guess I am impatient or have the wrong settings dialed in because I just burn through all the time.If it is this difficult for me to learn how to weld than my workers are going to have an even harder time.90% of what we need welded is 1/16th thick square tube 1x1" in size, pretty thin stuff! Most of the time the square tube is welded perpendicular to another square tube.I talked to one guy and he said an inverter machine would of been better, Another video I watched said a MIG aluminum welder is easier to use and fine for thin Aluminum.So for those of you that have some experience with all these different machines for welding thin 1/16" aluminum, which one is the easiest to learn and which one gives the best results?I've read about the Miller 211 which is very inexpensive at $1300, the Miller 305 Pulsed Mig which is around the price of my current machine and also the Lincoln v205T inverter welder. Trying to decide!Thanks for helping this newbie out.
Reply:I didn't know Lowes sold a TIG welder...Could you specify what model of TIG machine you bought?Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:1st issue, lack of skill in the operator. You really won't find a machine capable of letting an "idiot" do thin alum, at least well. ( by idiot I mean a person with zero to limited skills)Tig alum requires a high degree of skill in general, and the need for good heat control increases as the material gets thinner. Most of our students have a difficult time on 1/8" alum even if they have at least a moderate background in basic tig. 1/16" would increase this difficulty.Alum mig in general is a hot fast process. 1/16" alum is at the lower end of what is doable with a basic mig and a spoolgun. Thinner alum can be done with more advanced mig machines that allow pulsed spray to minimize the burn thru. Thin 1" tube will be fairly tough as your travel speed for alum needs to be much higher than when doing steel. You'll have to have finished the weld just about the moment you start it. Also a spoolgun is fairly bulky and it's very difficult to swing that bulky gun quickly around corners.As far as the easiest machine to use for an operator with limited skills, I'd guess I'd say a properly set up plused mig. If this is for production work, I'd talk to my supplier about seeing if you couldn't get a rep to come out and demo a machine for you. Let them show you what their machine can do and what machine is best for the job at hand. The real key to ease of use is going to be having the machine set up exactly the way you need it. More advanced machines like this are much more complicated to set up, hence making it that much harder for someone with limited knowledge to blindly find the right settings. ( edit: I forgot you went to Lowes for this machine> You need to go to a decent welding supply place if you want to get in touch with a company rep. Most supply places will get you in touch with a rep if they feel you are serious about dropping the cash on a machine, but if you look like you are just going to kick the tires and go shop online, don't expect them to be much help.)Your best bet might simply be to get more training on the machine you have. Assuming the machine is capable of AC/DC tig, it's certainly capable of easily doing the work as long as the operator does his part. Don't expect that this will be something you can learn in 2-3 hours however. On average most of our alum tig students with a good understanding of tig basics need a lot more than the 40 or so hours of class time in a semester to get thru all the basic joints in the flat position.You might want to look into a night class at a local tech school. When you sit down and add up what gas, filler, materials and so on would cost you, not to mention the instruction, a class is usually stupid cheap. Around me most classes cost between $10-15 / hour of class time. There are a lot of variables in tig that all need to be controlled at once. Having someone who knows what they are doing look over your shoulder and watch you weld is the fastest way to getting where you want to go.POst up what exact machine you have, what amp setting, tungsten type, gas being used etc. and we can try to help you learn how to use the machine you have, or at least be able to tell you that it's not the right machine for the job. ( not all tig machines are capable of doing thin alum). The more detailed info we have, the better we can help. Picts of your welds also will help us greatly. "my welds suck" doesn't really tell us much, but many of us can pick up issues that you need to work on from picts along with your settings and info. Good luck.Last edited by DSW; 11-25-2012 at 11:04 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Well I only tried to use the machine for a couple of hours so I probably have unrealilistic expectations of how fast one can learn to weld!?! The reason it took 9 months to get this far is I had to run a new utility meter to a workshed to accomodate this 275TIG machine's 125Amp circuit breaker. Yep I was that ignorant, I bought a machine without even knowing what the electrical requirements are. It is a Lincoln Percision Tig 275 Kit with water cooling, gas holder, cart, special ordered.I am using the foot control pedal so that it starts at 5amps and maxes out to 70 amps, argon gas and pure tungsten tip, very skinny around 0.040 diameter. The problem with the internet is I read conflicting information especially about what kind of tip to use. I actually thew away all my welds because I was only able to get a weld that stuck two pieces together once and all the other times I had cold slag. I'll try to make some samples. The reason I am leaning towards the MIG is this video shows a total newbie using the machine to get welds that stick See 21:00 minutes into it.He made better welds than me in 5 minutes on a machine that was 1/3rd the cost of mine.Obviously cost has little to do with it, but you have to use the right tool for the job as well. The miller matic 350P aluminum looks like the best system to me. This video makes it look so easy! Of course the TIG welding training DVD also makes it look easy.This is NOT for me to learn and master, it is for my workers. I'm running a business so TIME really is MONEY. Paying them $500-$1000 for a week long class is fine if they can become a pro, but I get the feeling that TIG is going to cost me a lot more in the long run in reduced productivity and rework costs due to burn outs, etc. There seems to be little information on how easy an inverter TIG machine is to use. I've read it allows for higher Hz/frequencies so it is easier, but you still have to have two hand coordination, seems like a MIG spool gun is easier for the beginner???
Reply:Hire a worker that knows how to tig. 1/16" aluminum isn't that thin, it shouldn't be a problem to weld.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Might be best to hire a welder that already has the skills your business requires.
Reply:or just hire a good weld teacher for a few days to get several of your workers trained.miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:I kind of live out in the boonies so it is hard to find someone. I think I would rather train my existing workers because they are very good honest hard workers and I don't want to lay one of them off just to hire someone new. It is very hard to find good workers! Maybe I'll try craigslist, unless there is a better way to look for help?Where can I find a good teacher for a few days in Charlotte, NC area? I called up one and he wanted $75 an hour. Seemed a bit high.
Reply:Not sure why a machine that retails for $3818 on lincoln's website cost you $5K.. never go to a box store for a welder. find a good Local Welding Supply, LWS that will get u set with what you need. the 275 will do great on thin aluminum, 16ga is not that thin either... depending on who you ask it can take 10's to 1000's of hrs to become good at Tig welding aluminum. I spent well over 100 hrs just running bead of aluminum on 16 ga this summer and can now put down a decent bead, 2 hrs is not even getting your feet wet... I also had some hands on help from Shovelon which was very helpful. Take a class or find a expert at Al TIG like I did and sit yourself down for some serious seat time...The machine is not the problem, it is definitely and operator issue at this point. If you are willing to put in the time and effort and open to constructive criticism, you can get going with TIG right here at Welding Web.here are a few threads to read...Just started this one on Spoolgun MIG Al..http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=188041&highlight=+tighere is my Aluminum TIG learning thread from the summerhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=132891 Rick's Recent TIG class with incompetent instructor... http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...+welding+classNot sure where you are located but If you can make it to one of the "expert" member's locations I am sure you will find it very useful... Heck as this is for a money making business, Fly out to Zapster's shop for a couple days if you can hit him up for some lessons.. I bet it will be as good or better than taking a class...Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelder9 months ago I bought a Lincoln Tig Welder from Lowes for my business. IT is a huge transformer type and cost around $5000. Didn't do much research on the machine. I just heard TIG was the best for aluminum.
Reply:AluminumWelder Check your PMs please....From the desk of Kevin CaronTrying to be the best me I can!www.kevincaron.comAHP Alpha Tig 200x MillerMatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Hey thanks for posting that youtube vid of the new Millermatic350P-Aluminum. Hopefully it will cost less than my standard 350P with Alumipro gun. I really only use it for Alum and it was a total bitch to set up too. Perhaps it will be a couple of thousand bucks cheaper to boot.As for your Lincoln275 keep honing you skills. You should be able to weld soda cans with it if set up correctly. You need some consultation with that $75 per hour weldor. He or she can set the parameters for you to record, and put your people thru their paces. Works every time I do it.And get that 350P-Aluminum when it comes out. Perhaps in the spring.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Miller has the 350P aluminum listed for $5500 with no gun and $7500 with gun, LOL didn't even realize it wasn't available for sale yet!
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderMiller has the 350P aluminum listed for $5500 with no gun and $7500 with gun, LOL didn't even realize it wasn't available for sale yet!
Reply:I'm going to try signing up for a local college course starting in January. Hopefully it is not that boring. Once I learn I'll try to teach my workers. Might hire that local instructor for $75/hr.wonder how many hours of eduation I'll need! could get expensive fast.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderI'm going to try signing up for a local college course starting in January. Hopefully it is not that boring. Once I learn I'll try to teach my workers. Might hire that local instructor for $75/hr.wonder how many hours of eduation I'll need! could get expensive fast.
Reply:Might try making a deal with the instructor, depending on how many people you have to train. For example hire him for a week to work with everyone at your shop. That way you get the machine set up and hands on training on the machine and material you will be working with. Might get a better rate from the instructor for the week.
Reply:Depending on which local college you will be attending, you may or may not be in for a long boring semester. I know at CPCC in the level 1 GTAW course you only do aluminum for a few days. You could always hire me to weld it for you But if the course turns out to not be what you need or are expecting, I may be able to point you in the right direction at least.
Reply:Alot of people make the mistake of thinking a welding machine is just another tool in your arsenol. Not the case when it comes to welding. It is an art/trade in itself. Don't be suprised if any of your guys that pick this up demand a raise, i'm sure they will be doing some research themselves. Not busting your chops, but just being realistic about it. Just because you buy a NASCAR, does that meen your a NASCAR driver I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Most welding classes tend to be work at your own pace. Talk to the instructor about what you want/need to be able to do, so he can tailor the class for you as much as possible. As long as it doesn't interfere with other students, most are more than happy to work with you. I've had several students who were interested in auto body mig for example. After the first few weeks when they have the basics down, if they want to bring in some old body panel material to practice on, it's no big deal. They can use the shop plasma to chop the panel up into workable size pieces and then prep and weld them back together.Also many times instructors are always looking for employers who are interested in hiring new welders. You may be able to find yourself a new PT employee thru the instructor..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAlso many times instructors are always looking for employers who are interested in hiring new welders. You may be able to find yourself a new PT employee thru the instructor.
Reply:I put up a craigs list ad for a tig welder/teacher and got 4 or 5 replies in less than 24 hours for $25/hr. So I'm going to give that a shot and might still take the course. I just can't afford to wait a few more months for me to complete a course so I can teach my workers.
Reply:Find the best teacher you can, pay what he wants, and get all your guys trained. It takes money to make money and the guy at $75 an hour would be dirt cheap if he's teaching you and your guys as a group. For you and 3 guys it would be less than $20 per man, per hour. I'm pretty sure it would be deductable as well. Every day it takes you to get up and running, is another day you can't make money off those skills.You ever play that Telephone game where the story changes with each person? That's what's going to happen if you get trained and immediately try to train your guys. As a newb you won't have the experience to pass on correct technique to anybody else. One of your guys may pick it up a lot faster than you too. So you don't want to miss out on that by keeping the teacher to yourself.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Trial run those intrested in teaching yourself. Find who you think is best and do a training workshop for your staff. Then see who shows and interest and aptitude in learning TIG welding and go from there. Pay for futher instruction. Several folks here are involved in teaching welding so they can advise you on what to ask and how to find a good instructor.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Just curious how $5K for a machine and $XX dollars to get it running are spent with zero research, but $75/hr is too much for someone that can weld with it? If you need to make parts, you are going to be light years ahead hiring something that already knows how use it...You might want to have those guys that responded do some demos for you, so you know they know their stuff, before you start having them teach your guys...Last edited by kazlx; 11-26-2012 at 02:21 AM.Good advice thanks! The $25/hr guy used to teach at the local community college and has used my machine. the $75/hr guy has not used my machine and travels a lot and wont' be available for 1 to 2 weeks and lives about an hour away.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelder...I bought a machine without even knowing what the electrical requirements are.... It is a Lincoln Percision Tig 275 Kit with water cooling, gas holder, cart....The miller matic 350P aluminum looks like the best system to me. This video makes it look so easy! Of course the TIG welding training DVD also makes it look easy.This is NOT for me to learn and master, it is for my workers. I'm running a business so TIME really is MONEY.
Reply:yeah i think you are right, but that machine is $6000 and we are entering our slow period of the year, maybe in the spring when business picks back up.
Reply:X2 on everything zapster said. Red tungsten, here is 20ga aluminum done this morning by Mike who I was teaching TIG too. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=1879631. Machine was at about 50 or 60 amps w/ pedal.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderI'm going to try signing up for a local college course starting in January. Hopefully it is not that boring. Once I learn I'll try to teach my workers. Might hire that local instructor for $75/hr.wonder how many hours of eduation I'll need! could get expensive fast.
Reply:if i was the business owner i would hire a qualified Welder make said welder foreman of the weld dept and have him train your guys will be cheaper in the long run and you can get parts moving out he could also do qc so you dont have subpar stuff leaving the plant It Cost Money to Make money before did you send it out for welding ???Miller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingWookieif i was the business owner i would hire a qualified Welder make said welder foreman of the weld dept and have him train your guys will be cheaper in the long run and you can get parts moving out he could also do qc so you dont have subpar stuff leaving the plant It Cost Money to Make money before did you send it out for welding ???
Reply:Thanks for the additional responses. as mentioned in another thread I am having a local guy who owns the same machine come help me. This past weekend I bought 4 heavy duty corner clamps and a $100 used rusty metal table off craigs list. I cleaned up the table and bolted the corner clamps to it for my jig. Ready to paint it up tomorrow.Waiting to get some new tungstens in. Forum members have recommended 2 different ones, red, and dark blue. I read before green was the best, obviously people disagree. Still a bit puzzled why there are so many people recommending different tungstens for aluminum?"before did you send it out for welding ??? "No we are currently using mechanical fasteners to contruct the 2x3' frame. There are not any structural loads, but mechanically fastening the frame is slow and welding will be faster and stronger and save money as well. Unfortunately I cannot afford to hire another worker right now. Staff just changed from 5 to 3 workers recently which is fine because it is the slow season for the next few months.Last edited by AluminumWelder; 12-03-2012 at 12:12 AM.
Reply:Well thanks for all the help. This is just a follow up post. To let you know what happended.At first I was very scared that it would take too much time/$$$ to train my workers. Looking back on it now It's probably because a lot of you pros are so good at what you do you have a very high standard. I had a good teacher come out here and look over our shoulders today for 3 or 4 hours. Altogether my worker probably had 7 or 8 hrs of hood time and he is obviously a newbie at welding, but he can now make an acceptable butt weld. Notice I did not say perfect or great butt weld He needs more practice on other types of welding, but I'm running a business not a welding school. He can do what I need for now and grow as he needs to. I looked at some commercial butt welds of the same material and honestly I think his look just as good. These commercial welds hold up loads that are heavy, while our loads are a few pounds. When I started out a few weeks ago I thought this might take months, I am happy it was not as hard as I thought and happy I had the support of this forum. I now know that I don't need a different machine this one works great and it wont' be hard to train new workers to use it. Thanks!Last edited by AluminumWelder; 12-11-2012 at 03:29 PM.
Reply:Thanks for posting back. The regular folks / pros here have a high standard for lots of good reasons. First and foremost is safety - welds actually mean something in the real world. So called "bad welds" aren't just bad, they are completely unpredictable as to when and how they will fail. A perfectly acceptable looking weld may fail with very little stress applied the first time, or the 10th time, or who knows when. I've made lots of them and knew nothing till I stressed them.Just a recommendation, being a business owner you dont' want complaints. Do some testing on your guy's welds, a lot at the beginning and less so as he improves, to see if they will withstand the loads. Cut them open. If they will be under constant stresses, or worse, changing stresses, make the tests reflect what will happen in real life over as long a time as they will be in service.Good call on hiring an instructor. I quickly concluded this about welding when I first tried my hand at it, and it's still true: A good welder is underpaid. Period. End of sentence.Glad business is back underway!
Reply:Nice!You could not have chosen a simpler machine. Next year buy and inverter.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:You want thin? Watch this master craftsman, Kent White, at work doing it with gas.[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF1Srs_e1Aw&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF1Srs_e1Aw&feature=player_embedded[/ame]Victor Oxy weld/cut Setup Meco Midget Torch outfitEverlast 2016 250EX & Power Cool W300Lincoln Power mig 210MP w/amptrol and Spool GunEverlast Powerarc 200 Hypertherm Powermax 45Bandsaw, Lathe, grinders, press, Bridgeport, etc.
Reply:neat video, but having to flux everything makes it sooo long to do, glad tig is a lot faster.
Reply:Some "master" does not even use a pair of gloves..Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250 |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:39:45