String of pearls - what's wrong?

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Hello again,I am a novice at welding with just a year in experience usually in my spare time.  I don't get to weld every day.I have been learning the characteristics of different rods and currents and experimenting with different positions.  Usually, the vertical or overhead jobs are done only when I don't have any choice.I have a problem with vertical welds when I run from bottom to top.  The weld bead looks like a string of tear drop shaped pearls, not unlike what you might see on the side of a candle with the melting was dribbling down the side and hardening.I know that for many cases welding up is the thing to do, but all of my jobs look really bad.  I get much better results welding down.Usually my rod position on these welds is almost horizontal, probably with my hand a little lower than the work.I would take a picture and show it to you, but I have this overwhelming urge to "fix" this work as soon as I see it - either with a grinder or another welding rod.Anybody have any ideas on what I might be doing wrong?  Moving too fast or slow, bad rod position?  Improper current settings.
Reply:What electrode/size/amps? Base metal size? When stick welding vertical you usually need a few less amps than when welding flat. Also weaving left to right pausing on the sides can help keep the weld from falling out.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Could be several things, but with no picts, I have to guess.What I think is happening is that you aren't holding the sides long enough and crossing the middle fast enough. I see this quite often at the tech school with students learning vertical up. My guess is you haven't really learned to read the puddle yet, and are trying to run "timing " patterns.Here's what is happening... In flat/ horizontal guys often swing back and forth between the two plates say on a T joint. They go up on a count of one to the top plate and down to the bottom on the count of two holding equal time on both pieces. This is fine on flat, and works Ok most of the time on horizontal.  What happens when you get to vertical and try to do the same thing is that you don't get enough material at the sides, and get more material in the center. Running an even back and forth pace, you spend a count of one on the left, a count of one crossing the center, a count of one on the right, and a count of one going back to th eleft where you started. That means when you look at the whole, you spent (1) on the left, (2 1+1) going across the center, and (1) on the right. The center is either high and drippy and the sides are ok, or you get undercut on the sides and the center is even.What you need to do is vary your travel speed side to side watching the puddle fill. It's harder with stick than mig, and I often do this demo with mig so the guys can see the puddle with no slag hiding what is going on. When you move to the right, you pass the center quickly and the pause on the right side until the puddle catches up to the arc, then quickly cross the center again, and pause on the left, until the puddle catches up to the arc again, and repeat. Now if you look at how long you spend in each location, you spent (1) on the left, (1 1/2+1/2) going across the center, and (1) on the right. So everything is even.The other possibility is that you are moving "up" too much with each cycle. Lets say for every inch up you do 2 cycles. You start at 0 on the left and  go up to the right to 1/4", then left to 1/2", then right to 3/4" and finally back to 1" to start over again... You either have to go slow to get the weld to fill, or you leave big gaps on the toes as you go up. Instead increase your speed of side to side and decrease the vertical movement. Now start at 0 and go right to say 1/16", then left to 1/8" and back right to 3/16" and so on. This tightens up your movements and lets you travel "faster" laying down material in a "thinner" layer that's more even.I hope this makes sense. With picts I can show this better. I'll dig a bit. I know I covered this with picts in another thread in the past for someone else..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:A few vertical stick threads to look over.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=61066http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=26875Here's the  thread I was looking for where I explained some of these issues with Vertical. Look at posts 18 and 19 and see if this makes sense.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?p=1337671.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The last time I produced this result I was welding a half-inch rod to a 2" pipe.  I was using 1/8" 6013 at about 85 amps.  There is not much room here to weave around and I probably would have been better off with a 3/32" rod, but these are harder for me to control because they are so flimsy.The best (or in my case worst) case of this result was about 6 months ago and I was welding a 2 1/4" pipe cut lengthwise in half over a 2" pipe.  This gave me a 6" long vertical weld to get a really good string down.  Instead, I got about 12-15 pearls strung out along the whole weld.  Then, I would have been using 1/8" 6011 at around 90 amps (or 90% of 1st gear).After reading and looking at some of the pics DSW showed, I believe I remember running a string straight up without doing any weaving, or just barely weaving around.  I might even have been moving the rod in some type of circular motion.  Whatever it was, it was very consistent.I might just take out a couple of pieces of steel and weld them to something just to get a better feel on reading the puddle.  I will probably work with 6011 rods so I can actually see the puddle.DSW, when you talk about counting out 1-2-3-...  are these seconds, or just an arbitrary count to get consistent timing?
Reply:Arbitrary count to get consistent timing.Honestly I do it all by looking at the puddle. The "count" just lets people understand what I'm doing. In reality I'm constantly changing my speed thru the weld based on what I see happening with the puddle.With mig there is a distinctive change in sound when the puddle catches up to the arc if I have the machine tuned just right. I don't really notice it with stick as I do with mig. This is all about learning to read the puddle. I can show someone 1000 times and they still might not "see" what I see. Others catch it right away. It's an "Ah ha!" moment when things suddenly click and make sense.Last edited by DSW; 12-23-2012 at 10:53 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:85 amps for 1/8 6013 seems low, try more amps. If you have trouble with 3/32 because it whips around so much you can cut about 2" off the end and that will make it alot easier to controll (can also clamp in stinger and twist flux off and bend the back of the electrode if you don't want to cut it).Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Thank you both.  I'll keep trying.
Reply:6013 is not the best rod for vertical-up either. You may have better luck with 7018.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:If you learn to run the 6013 then you will be able to run the 7018.  The 6013 is typically much cheaper than the 7018.
Reply:Seeing the puddle can be affected by rod brand as well which I learned recently.  For instance, Lincoln 7018AC runs like a hot mess on DC with no puddle to slag differentiation.It's fine on flat, cause as DSW said, you kinda get a rhythm going and can almost run a bead by sound and time with your eyes closed after a few.I made lots of "pearls" with it verticle up because the metal puddle hid under a huge slag puddle.  Excalibur 7018 gives you a puddle you can see and therefore react to.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Interesting about how different brands will respond.  I don't know if I have a selection available to me, or just what AOC has in stock.At any rate, I have tried the 7018 rods here on the ranch, but will probably not keep any on hand because of our humidity.  I will use the 6010, 6011, 6013 and 7014 rods.  Most of the work I will be working on will have a considerable amount of rust on it.  I might get some 7018 rods if I have a specific project to work on and will use up all the rods I get.  In fact, there is a 6 foot Bush Hog shredder out back that needs a new deck.  Sounds like a good project.My biggest problem is, as DSW and others mentioned, seeing the puddle.  Welding here is not a top priority and I only get to do it every now and then, and then it will be for just an hour or less.  Weeks may go by before I get back to it and there is a lot of ground that I have to relearn or refamiliarized myself with.Seems like the more I try to skip the basics to save time and money, the more I have to get back to them to figure out what is wrong.The members of this forum have been extremely helpful in this regard.  What a knowledge base to draw from.