High carbon steels

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Does anyone have advice for me? Am considering taking on a project where the guy wants a box wedge for a logsplitter made from a cutting blade from a pan scraper. I am hoping preheating to 1100* and using a 11018 hobart rod will work without it getting brittle or cracking the welds. Haven't said yay or nay yet, still triyng to talk him into using steel plate.
Reply:Only make the edge out of hardened material.  Make the bulk of the wedge from mild steel.  Design it so the weld between hard and mild steel is in compression when splitting wood.  Then the weld doesn't really take any load.  The weld just keeps the hardened edge from falling off.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:fourXFord  -  The part you are utilizing is commonly called a moldboard, a replaceable cutting edges on dirt moving equipment, and widely used on wear surface in all typesof rock crushers.  It is a high manganese steel, and has a set of welding rules unto itself, ie. under a cutting torch it cuts erratically and produces generous kerf feathers, to anneal its quenched with water, to harden its allowed to air cool.  Successful welding requires a greater understanding of its idiosyncrasies than can be discussed on the forum.  There is abundant info on the Web: search moldboard, manganesesteel, and welding; you will get a plate full.    Opus
Reply:I agree with Opus about the welding. If the piece you have available is of uniform thickness, you might cut a piece out, grind three edges square and grind a cutting edge on the fourth (front), then build a larger wedge with a closed front pocket this insert could be bolted into.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2I agree with Opus about the welding. If the piece you have available is of uniform thickness, you might cut a piece out, grind three edges square and grind a cutting edge on the fourth (front), then build a larger wedge with a closed front pocket this insert could be bolted into.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROfourXFord  -  The part you are utilizing is commonly called a moldboard, a replaceable cutting edges on dirt moving equipment, and widely used on wear surface in all typesof rock crushers.  It is a high manganese steel, and has a set of welding rules unto itself, ie. under a cutting torch it cuts erratically and produces generous kerf feathers, to anneal its quenched with water, to harden its allowed to air cool.  Successful welding requires a greater understanding of its idiosyncrasies than can be discussed on the forum.  There is abundant info on the Web: search moldboard, manganesesteel, and welding; you will get a plate full.    Opus
Reply:look at some blacksmithing videos that show how a tool like a chisel or ax is made. a mild steel piece  gets a slot cut into it, and a cutting edge small piece of tool steel is forge welded into the slot..
Reply:Expat beat me to itBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:The high manganese steel search was helpful. Sounds like it is possible toweld, with the right rod, DO NOT preheat, and a plasma cutter would be nice to own. I think i'll play with oil hardening my wedges tonight.
Reply:fourXFord  -  I'm down, but not out!  Everyone thank  -  ExpatWelder and Killdozerd11  -  for their "reading for comprehension".   Attention to detail is paramount in welding procedure;  I was unclear in my introduction.Moldboards are the body that cutting edges attach to; I spoke to the actual fabrication of cutting edge material.Manganese is alloyed to increase impact resistance ie. crushers, cutting edges, pile-drivers.  It is hostile to conventional fabrication techniques and procedures.  I used to work a little south of ExatWelder, doing much of the same thing.   In this work environ you are called to build things that don't exist, out of material that you do not have, and it has to work.Cutting-edges [all manganese steel] are not a good choice for a welded knife-edge.  It has welding issues, and it resists sharpening.  fourXFord, Thanx, for your quick Web search and post.    OpusLast edited by OPUS FERRO; 08-01-2012 at 02:04 AM.Reason: Clarification
Reply:I still have not experimented with the piece in question, it is not uniform in thickness. It is roudned on the back side and sorta flat on the front and looks like the same metal all the way through. I'll start with my porta band saw and see how hard it is, if the saw won't cut it, it's gonna be like welding a disk blade. Just have other stuff happening. Camera is broke so can't post any pics of my last project which I had my son help me weld up. It's a log trailer made from a '60s Chevy frame. Used airbags from a semi trailer instaed of the coil springs and installed a leveling valve so the height stays the same. loaded it up with logs and it survived the test trip. Needs some better tires yet. I thought the old weather checked skins were going to blow out!
Reply:Been there done that. Weld it with 9018 or 11018 and back it up with a BIG piece of Mild steel. If you are really worried about it cracking use MG600 Mg660 or Harris Missleweld.  Usually I notch the I beam out top to bottom (cut out the web) and and insert the backup piece all the way through the beam. Also laminate the beam. lay a piece of flat  on top of the beam wider than the beam and thicker too. 3/4 or 1" thick works well. This will give you a good solid base for your slider/pusher to ride on.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:I found a smaller project which the metal acts/cuts and grinds similar. I broke a fork on my loader. It's an older F11 and one of the grapple forks snapped. I've done some research, talked to ALOT of professional welders, then I chose to weld it up with a handful of Missle Weld which was given to me, FREE! I called a welding supply store and priced it, they didn't have it but they had UTP65.Supposed to be same thing basically. I have some of the info for the 65Top strength, highly crack resistant, low heat input astenitic-ferritic multi-purpose welding electrode for welding dissimilar steel, alloy steels, tool steel, spring steel, stainless steel, mangenese steel, etc. elongation 25% 120,000 psi tensil strength.The price they gave me? $50.13/pound! wow! Thats over $250 for a 5 pound box. I'll have to raise the price of his wedge quote, which I haven't gave him yet.
Reply:the wedge on my splitter is mild steel.after 20  or more years of use there is no perceptible wear. maybe if it was a commercial unit being used 12 hours a day the harder edge would be justified.miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROfourXFord  -  I'm down, but not out!  Everyone thank  -  ExpatWelder and Killdozerd11  -  for their "reading for comprehension".   Attention to detail is paramount in welding procedure;  I was unclear in my introduction.Moldboards are the body that cutting edges attach to; I spoke to the actual fabrication of cutting edge material.Manganese is alloyed to increase impact resistance ie. crushers, cutting edges, pile-drivers.  It is hostile to conventional fabrication techniques and procedures.  I used to work a little south of ExatWelder, doing much of the same thing.   In this work environ you are called to build things that don't exist, out of material that you do not have, and it has to work.Cutting-edges [all manganese steel] are not a good choice for a welded knife-edge.  It has welding issues, and it resists sharpening.  fourXFord, Thanx, for your quick Web search and post.    Opus
Reply:You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill...It's for a logsplitter.My wedge is nothing more than C.R.S. with a sharpened edge..Came from the factory that way..The all do.To the O.P.All you need in this application is regular steel..Don't make it any more difficult than it need be...You are splitting WOOD not concrete!...zap!Last edited by zapster; 11-18-2012 at 10:23 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by dunemetalPossible the nomenclature is a function of your locality. We always refer to the "blade" on a grader as a "moldboard" vs a blade on a dozer. Whether it is on a dozer, grader, etc each will have a cutting edge which is a consumable. Quite a few of the blades/moldboards on our equipment have a skin that is AR400/500 which is a manganese ssteel.
Reply:[/IMG]The part which started this is a cutting edge from a Cat pan scraper, i've 2 of them and was going to use them for a drag I could pull behind the lawn mower. I now have a tractor and loader so that project is scrapped.Last edited by fourXFord; 12-24-2012 at 10:09 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou guys are making a mountain out of a molehill...It's for a logsplitter.My wedge is nothing more than C.R.S. with a sharpened edge..Came from the factory that way..The all do.To the O.P.All you need in this application is regular steel..Don't make it any more difficult than it need be...You are splitting WOOD not concrete!...zap!
Reply:My wedges have always been made from 3/4 or 1" plate. I've done some experimenting with different wedge designs. I fixed my beam so I can unbolt then bolt on different wedges. Here is one of the latest prototypes.This design worked on straight grain wood, but any twist to the grain and it gets stuck. It would work better with more push then I have now. I don't like the mess of small splinters it leaves.Last edited by fourXFord; 01-01-2013 at 08:18 PM.
Reply:fourXFord, welding that project with a duplex steel is nuts. No need for UTP65, MissleWeld, Eutectic 680, WeldMold 880 or any other such crap.Zap has it pretty much right for a scatch build, you could go to T-1 if you are paranoid about bending the edge to get a bump in strength.There is a good chance that a used scraper blade is going to be similar to the AR type materials. (cheap, but good enough)AR400/500 are carbon steels with a little boron added for roller quench hardening at the mill. The skin is 400 or 500 brinell but below that not that bad. Just weld with E90 or better & keep the heat below 500-600F for any length of time.Real manganese steel is called Hadfield and is a whole different thing. As opus said you don't grind, mill or drill the stuff well at all. It's best use is things rolling over it like in railroad frogs. It starts out in the 20 rockwell hardness range and as it cold works it goes to yo-mama hard. I really don't like the stuff.Good luck,Matt