28% hazmat charge?

admin

Bought a 10# spool of .030 mig wire,two nozzles and some contact tips.Got charged $8.00 hazmat fee.Didn't look at receipt till I got home.I don't even understand why there should be hazmat fee for mig wire,butI'm assuming that's what fee was for.So that's an $8.00 fee for a $28.75 spool of wire.Is this normal?Was this a mistake?Either way I'm going back there and sharing my opinionwith them.Does TSC or Maine oxy charge similar fees?Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:should be a mistake. If not, return everything and tell them to stick it up their a$$ and go someplace else. That's a crock
Reply:What else did you buy?
Reply:It should only apply to tank exchange or fill, and not on consumables.
Reply:(Lee Ermey voice):They didn't even have the decency to give him a reacharound.
Reply:Originally Posted by MotörchargeWhat else did you buy?
Reply:No problem.  They're just Obama supporters helping to "spread the wealth".  You should feel honored to have done your part. MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I got dinged like that too.  Pissed me off.  What bugs me is if I buy wire at HF or A box hardware store there is not Hazmat charge but they claim that's what its for at the LWS.  Can't blame Obama either.   8 years under bush and look at all the f'ed up epa **** we got.  Esp tier 4 diesel regs among others.     Republicans are just as greedy for BoneYa tax as anyone else.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55No problem.  They're just Obama supporters helping to "spread the wealth".  You should feel honored to have done your part.
Reply:Originally Posted by jpump5If that's the case,then shouldn't Airgas wealth be redistributed to me ?
Reply:This practice doesn't help the LWS; like Soutthpaw says, the practice makes you look elsewhere first.TSC or local hardware store.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by jpump5If that's the case,then shouldn't Airgas wealth be redistributed to me ?
Reply:I go over my invoice before  walk out the door, I have caught the bastards more than once.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Just bought a roll of mig wire at LWS and there was no haz mat charge.
Reply:I went to an Airgas store today(not the one I bought wire from) and asked about Hazmat feepolicy.Apparently $8.00 charge is correct,so I'm through with them.I don't think Airgas is really interested in selling me small quantities of filler metals(or gas).There's now a Maine Oxy right down the road from the local Airgas that used to be Abco.Word is that some of the old Abco guys left Airgas after the buyout and went to Maine Oxy.I'll check Maine Oxy out this weekend.I could buy wire at Tsc.I could even buy wire at localhardware store and still save money over Airgas.Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:I know this has bugged me for years too. I just emailed Airgas Intermountain regional customer service about this and will post up what I find out.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by jpump5I went to an Airgas store today(not the one I bought wire from) and asked about Hazmat feepolicy.Apparently $8.00 charge is correct,so I'm through with them.I don't think Airgas is really interested in selling me small quantities of filler metals(or gas).There's now a Maine Oxy right down the road from the local Airgas that used to be Abco.Word is that some of the old Abco guys left Airgas after the buyout and went to Maine Oxy.I'll check Maine Oxy out this weekend.I could buy wire at Tsc.I could even buy wire at localhardware store and still save money over Airgas.
Reply:I just got hosed by the "hazmat fee" on a roll of MIG wire- not by Airgasp but by an independent LWS in a smallish town, who competes with Airgasp!It was around $2, thankfully not $8, But still BS.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Kolot- Actually I'm talking about the Waterford store.Quite a coincidence(?)Same circumstances.Does Maine Oxy charge hazmat fees?Are the hazmat fess as bad as AG?Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:I sent my wife to pick up tungsten once... came back and the invoice was $56!!! The LWS charged her a per piece (not per package or per invoice) hazmat charge.  Here's the old thread: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=41967So I did some digging:This is for Washington State:http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=82.21.030RCW 82.21.030 Pollution tax.(1) A tax is imposed on the privilege of possession of hazardous substances in this state. The rate of the tax shall be seven-tenths of one percent multiplied by the wholesale value of the substance.(2) Moneys collected under this chapter shall be deposited in the toxics control accounts under RCW 70.105D.070.(3) Chapter 82.32 RCW applies to the tax imposed in this chapter. The tax due dates, reporting periods, and return requirements applicable to chapter 82.04 RCW apply equally to the tax imposed in this chapter.Bottom line... all the one and two dollar (or $8) hazmat fees that the LWS, oil change places, tire shops, and etc charge are largely padding their invoices. My local LWS doesn't charge me the hazmat fee anymore... because I won't pay anymore than required by law. If they want to take the time and calculate the fee as prescribed by the law... fine I'll pay but don't take me to the cleaners claiming "state mandated". If it was required... the fee would be the same for every store that sold those products. Hazmat is hazmat, regardless if it is purchased at the LWS or TSC! Truth be told... I suspect they have paid the tax at the wholesale level already and are trying to make it up on you and me... and then some. I'd like to see how much of the fee is deposited in the toxics control accounts as per the law. Last edited by forhire; 09-19-2012 at 11:31 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotYou would be talking about AG in South Windsor on RT. 5  Read that one easy enough, Go and see Kevin over at Maine Oxy, He will treat you right.  One of the other guys that left AG and went to Maine Oxy has returned to AG, don't think Maine Oxy is doing as well as expected so give them your business or we'll be at the mercy of AG in our area.
Reply:I found a shop that doesn't charge hazmat, and shop there as much as I canDynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Maine Oxy does charge hazmat fees, although I'm not exactly sure what the surcharge is.  I know they billed me when I've bought gas there, and I think I had to pay it when I just bought rods too.  The only things I get from local stores now are tank rentals and gas, and occasionally rods.  I end up paying about half as much online for consumables, gloves, etc.
Reply:Reading through this... wow, I am not one to throw a fit or anything in a store, but I would be beyond disturbed if I was paying a hazmat fee for some welding gloves. I would never go back... Order everything online.
Reply:Reviewed a recent invoice I received from airgas for my cylinder rentals and noticed a Hazmat chage on that invoice.  I questioned how they could charge me a hazmat charge for cylinders which have been sitting in my shop.  I needed to ask 4 different people going up to the corporate level to finally receive an answer.  Below is a copy of what they sent to me.Synchrowave 300   Old but reliableI always complain about it on non hazmat items and they usually take it off. If they don't I won't buy them.
Reply:Originally Posted by jpump5Kolot- Actually I'm talking about the Waterford store.Quite a coincidence(?)Same circumstances.Does Maine Oxy charge hazmat fees?Are the hazmat fess as bad as AG?
Reply:If you look at some of the Federal hazmat lists they got everything except salt, pepper and ketchup on there. Having said that, I truly believe that some of these places use the hazmat fee as a sneaky way of padding the bottom line a bit. Even to the point of turning a profit on hazmat fees. 50 cent product and a dollar hazmat fee. It's also a sneaky way of keeping your item prices appear to be lower than your competitor while slapping on the hazmat fee as seperate line item. Any store that incoperates hazmat fees into their overall pricing would appear higher at face value. There is no difference in a roll of wire at the hardware store than at a LWS yet a LWS will tack on hazmat fees. All in what the consumer allows. Nearly every business has to pay hazmat fees in one form or another on some things but not all have a line item charge for that. Go figure.A parallel topic would be; 1) How much does a medium sized LWS actually pay out in hazmat fees annually and how much do they rake in off consumer charges? 2) Do they charge all customers the same fees and/or just the walk in, non-account holders?3) Do they charge hazmat fees on items that they don't pay hazmat fees for?4) Would a LWS manager type actually give you an honest answer if you asked him/her?Then another rant is the gubmints side of this. They have to be rolling in the dough off these fees. They don't really track chit but they sure impose the fees on anything and everything they can. It's gotta be just one absolutely huge trail of digital paper work and revenue flow involved with the whole concept. With them gobbling up dollars off any and every thing they want to plop on the list there's a huge incentive for them to list as many things as they can possibly think of as "hazardous". Take an ounce of magic powder that goes into some welding filler as an example. They get hazmat fees every single time that magic dust gets shipped or handled from the time it gets dug out of the magic dust mine to the magic dust processing plant then to the guy that puts the dust in the wire then shipped from the plant to a distributers warehouse then from the warehouse to a retail oulet,,,,,,,,,,,,, and then last but not least, the retail outlet (LWS) tacks on that nasty little hazmat fee to you just to make sure that you understand completely that you the consumer know that you will get kicked in the nerts every time the gubmint needs more money for the coffers. Hazmat my arse, it's revenue.Last edited by Sandy; 09-20-2012 at 04:35 PM."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by farmall(Lee Ermey voice):They didn't even have the decency to give him a reacharound.
Reply:I bought some stuff at my Maine Oxy today, no hazmat charge.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI got dinged like that too.  Pissed me off.  What bugs me is if I buy wire at HF or A box hardware store there is not Hazmat charge but they claim that's what its for at the LWS.  Can't blame Obama either.   8 years under bush and look at all the f'ed up epa **** we got.  Esp tier 4 diesel regs among others.     Republicans are just as greedy for BoneYa tax as anyone else.
Reply:I went to Praxair to pick up some stuff and of course got the hazmat charge. Last time I will ever shop there. I'll order everything online. I'll likely still get my air from them, but will not buy anything else.I called an attorney just to see if they can do this. They can. Nothing illegal about it. They could charge you a happy birthday fee if they wanted to. Attorney said 'Free Enterprise'.What I didn't ask is if they can charge a fee without notifying me. I just get a receipt with the charge on there.I called Praxair, the rep had no idea why and suggested I contacted the sales rep and offered their number, I never took the number down. They suggested that they are charging a handling fee.In any event, to me, even if all of them are doing it, it is shady business and a scam. Basically bullying me for the rest of the change in my pockets.
Reply:Gentle men, I am a retred welding sales man hazmat is" BS"  The only hazmate expense any dealer should be allowed to recover is from shipping.  Hazmat started years ago, at first it was to help cover costs of Increased liability Ins.  Then is was allowed because the Vendor was required to have MSDS availabel for all hazmat related products.  Last I was involved every product that required an MSDS was packaged with one from the factory.  It is profit to pay for insurance.Similar to Cylinder rent or Demurrge a fee that creats 90 to 95 percent "bottom line" profit.The company I worked for paid Payroll out of cylinder rent, nice huh. Change suppliers or buy online.
Reply:This has been going on in California for years. If you go to a hardware store to buy small rolls of wire they charge you over 7.00 a pound. If you go to Praxair or Airgas they screw you too with the hazmat fee. Either way you pay, either way you look at it it is double taxation in sheeps skin. Then the politicians tell you to pass the cost on to the consumer.
Reply:Last wire I bought at air gas I got charged 10 bucks for hazmat. When I bitched they said if it has a msds they charge it. So when i needed wire again I ordered it from IOC no hazmat,tax or shipping plus it was cheaperMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Hazmat charge, How about when they put your cylinders on lease " or supposed to" then 9 months later your still gettin charged rent for cylinders you leased two years ago and cause Airgas swapped computer systems it got all messed up and cost you almost 1000$, and they still havent fixed the issue, but every time you go into the store its been taken care of bla bla bla bla bla bla, i myself i am done with Airgas until it is resolved, i told the acct. manager the other day i was turning in the cylinders and i was done, his response well your not even gonna give me a chance to help you, its like dude its f...... December i have been on your *** since March how much more time do you need?I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCHazmat charge, How about when they put your cylinders on lease " or supposed to" then 9 months later your still gettin charged rent for cylinders you leased two years ago and cause Airgas swapped computer systems it got all messed up and cost you almost 1000$, and they still havent fixed the issue, but every time you go into the store its been taken care of bla bla bla bla bla bla, i myself i am done with Airgas until it is resolved, i told the acct. manager the other day i was turning in the cylinders and i was done, his response well your not even gonna give me a chance to help you, its like dude its f...... December i have been on your *** since March how much more time do you need?
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyA parallel topic would be; 1) How much does a medium sized LWS actually pay out in hazmat fees annually and how much do they rake in off consumer charges? 2) Do they charge all customers the same fees and/or just the walk in, non-account holders?3) Do they charge hazmat fees on items that they don't pay hazmat fees for?4) Would a LWS manager type actually give you an honest answer if you asked him/her?
Reply:" We only charge HAZMAT fees on compressed gas. I've never heard of HAZMAT fees on things like filler rod until I read it on this thread."This is the very point of my question: Why is there a hazmat charge on somethingthat would appear to not require any DOT regulation,MSDS,etc.?Bottled gas transportation is regulated by DOT.AG pays for that,passes cost on to me.Coated electrodes,brazing fluxes,etc need MSDS info.AG pays for that ,passescost on to me. They put these on a seperate line so they can more easily control who pays/howmuch.Seems a little shady.But paying HAZMAT on solid mig wire = getting screwed unless I'm missing something.Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:It's called a `Fuel Surcharge`here,5 bucks on every order. It doesn`t matter if it`s delivered to your door or if i pick it up,still the same. My last trip in to pay my account I told the owner I was taking the 5 dollars off my total for my time..
Reply:Originally Posted by Montana JackSandy,I work at my family's small, independent LWS. I can give you some answers/rough numbers to your questions. We are a one store location in a small city.1. I would suspect that we profit most months on HAZMAT fees, and lose a little bit on others. The big expenses for us in terms of hazardous materials is DOT Compliance, Mandatory Drug Testing, 24 Hour Emergency Response, and the mountain of paperwork and documentation required by the government. We also get charged HAZMAT fees from our vendors up the supply chain. We fill our gas at a plant in another state (just the way it worked out for us), so the HAZ cost for that works out to around 75 cents/cylinder. We charge our customer a flat HAZMAT fee $2.99 on compressed gas sales orders, so if we have twenty gas deliveries per day (remember, we're small) that would amount to about $300/week in HAZMAT fees, or $1200/month. 2. We charge all accounts the same. The only catch with us is it doesn't matter if you buy one cylinder or twenty. The fee is always $2.99. In that sense, it's a little unfair to the average walk in customer because they pay the $2.99 for a $50.00 order just as the big account pays $2.99 for the $1000.00 order. 3. We only charge HAZMAT fees on compressed gas. I've never heard of HAZMAT fees on things like filler rod until I read it on this thread.4. Yes. As I stated, overall I think we profit from the fee. It's a pretty small profit, but we wouldn't be in business if we actively decided to lose money.  Hope that answers your questions!
Reply:I switched from Airgas to Colorado based General Air due to cheaper gas and a flat hazmat fee of about $3.   I paid about $12 for one cylinder fill at Airgas .  That worked out to about 15% of the price of the gas fill.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:This pissed me off too, but I didn't notice until I was home.  Went to an Airgas at lunch the other day and they charged me 3.95 for brazing rod and RG45.  BS.