Dealing with customers and custom work.

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Different customers and the way they think and act.  Custom is custom and every project is one off.  Some people do not get that completion dates are not given due to many factors. And feel great about hounding the piss out of you..Seems some think you are Detroit and don't get that everything takes time..factor in mistakes andd jobs that take priority..Gov't municipal etc etc..some projects go smooth and some don't.  Whats your take on the general public for those that handbuild every part that is put out??
Reply:I deal with that on a regular basis, as well as customers that I build something for we agree on a size and after its built they decide they don't like the size and they thinks its so simple for me to cut it all aprt and redo it, as well as they don't want to pat extra for me having to do that
Reply:The customer is always right even if there wrong and I make them pay for being rightwww.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:I am just finishing a 30x40 metal building for a guy. I first talked to him about this building 17 years ago. About once a year, some times more often, he will talk to me about it again. This year he has done it and he can't understand what is taking so long to finish it. Human nature I guess.
Reply:Lol. I am on a smaller scale, but I just did a custom roof rack for a land rover, only charged 250.00 that's dirt money compared to the racks I see online for 800.00 and 1000.00 customer said he wanted his rack 50 inches wide x 55 long and 7 inches tall, so I built it, then he saw it, said it was too tall and too wide, he wanted me to cut the front down half an inch and the back two inches. And wanted it for free.I charged him 50 extra dollars to build it again since I'm bot going to hack up this one. He made such a fuss, in the end he paid, he was still happy with it. Just cheep
Reply:When I used to do mechanic work, people who walked in complaining about the last three shops that screwed them over were clearly not the customer to deal with.  Some guys quoted them triple so they wouldn't have to ask them to leave - they just left complaining that they would not be backUnfortunately I have taken jobs when I should have known not to.  Both as a mechanic and welder.  Those experiences make me very cautious since I do not like finishing items to spec only to be told they do not like it.The way I deal with it now (for custom welding) is to request a down payment before I start.  If they refuse, it weeds out problem customers.  Never used to have to do that....sucks.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I do the same, I ask for a 30-50% deposit,  I get that all the time, or the customer who thinks I'm a nice guy so the want a little more and a little more. Almost like they are sneaking it in there, I used to do construction which included flooring, I had a customer once, who I gave a super awsome cheep deal, she told me she couldn't afford much, her house flooded, son destroyed it ect, all the sob story's. I did it with no money down, me and my one employee worked 7 days a week, 12 hour days, and I picked him up everyday, it was a little over an hour away to the jobsite. Towards the end, the lady wanted us to do this and do that, nit pick every little thing, I did the job practically for free and she acted like she was paying 10.00 a sq ft for installation. I wanted to strangle her
Reply:I hate those people, unfortunetly when money starts getting tight, its hard to turn down some jobs
Reply:lol,  i had a customer last week that asked me to 'confirm' what they wanted, was what they really wanted...........LmFao.........that right ther was saying to me if they dont like it, i would need to redoo it for free. Ive been doing business too long, i need to make a list of the sh;t said. Should be a thread.   Oh, my reply  ' only you can confirm what u want ' . But i do reinforce them that if i see something stupid or doesnt look right, we'll colaborate more        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:I think a lot of these problems come from current TV shows, where custom items are produced on ridiculous time scales.  What the average guy at home doesn't realize, is that they compress weeks of work down into a one-hour show.  Of course, sometimes, they really do 'build a whole car' in just five days, but they have several teams of several people working unbelievable hours to make that happen.I had someone look at my riveted picture frame and ask if I would be willing to make one for him.  I sent him an email with the price and an explanation of the amount of work that goes into custom work.  It's hard to charge custom prices in a world where people are used to Chinese manufacturing prices.KevKevin / Machine_Punk from The Aerodrome Studio - Lincoln PowerMIG 210 MP - Meco N Midget w/custom welding station - Vintage Victor 100Current Projects: The Aerodrome Studio
Reply:I've had issues with taking cash when the job is done. This I don't understand, I fabricate a lot of items for boats so I constantly haul them, a customer hires me to haul his big a$$ boat from a body shop so I do, then he hires someone else to try to tow away/steel the boat from me so he doesn't have to pay me for the 3 hours it took to remove the boat. I stop them and tell them they gotta pay me, then he tells me he's going to call the cops and have me arrested for holding his boat. One cop tells me I have every right to hold the boat another says no I can't, well if I couldnt then how could any tow company or mechanic shop hold a vehical for tows or non payment doesn't make sense. Anyways I told him if he didn't pay it would just go to an impound yard that would add my fee to their fee and collect daily storage fees......his wife came and paid
Reply:The problem is that any welder or mechanic who wants a reasonable chance of staying in business has to meet certain criteria of integrity and workmanship. There are always exceptions, sure. Customers don't need to do anything but hand over their money to get what they want, so it tends to give people an entitlement mentality where they think they should get whatever they desire and you're just a good-for-nothing mucky-muck who does their bidding.What has helped me deal with entitled people is to just keep it simple and say "I can't do that" and I never offer an explanation, I just let it sink into their head and eventually they realize that the mere implication that they expected me to accommodate them to such a degree in the first place was outside the realm of possibility.Last edited by Rora; 02-13-2013 at 07:00 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mick120This sign is front and center when you come into my shop....most of my customers don't even see it.....It's really there for the uninitiated.When I had my mechanical shops, I had one that said   "Normal hourly rate $XX.XX.....If you watch, double.....If you help, triple".No one stayed and watched or wanted to help......funny that.... What I've found is, it's not the smaller player that tend to give problems but, the larger players want everything on 30 days EOM.....I tactfully refuse....pre paid or COD is how I run....
Reply:Originally Posted by joseph_zlnskI hate those people, unfortunetly when money starts getting tight, its hard to turn down some jobs
Reply:Several rules to live by..1) Never agree to any project without a contract2) Detail to the greatest extent possible all the requirements of a project3) Explain, in writing, that changes and additions to the requirements will mean additional cost to the client.4) Provide to the client a detailed schedule before starting any work. (Always provide a completion date)5) Inform the client immediately if that schedule needs to change.By not giving a completion date, you are just asking for trouble. And, in my opinion, you would deserve it.Last edited by herbet99; 02-13-2013 at 11:10 AM.
Reply:If you do good work and treat the customer right it will eventually get to where, by word of mouth they will want you personally to do their work. Part of consistently good work is saying no when you feel bad about the whole deal. I never could stand to build Machines that I knew would not work, even if the customer had the money in hand. Every failure that you do and get paid for is still a mark against your reputation. Believe me that reputation in a small community is worth your future income. and all communities are small when you are talking about a one man shop.   Mac
Reply:Tool Maker.. you make a good point about not taking on jobs that are destined to be failures or at least that you know will not meet the expectations of the customer. That happens all the time in my line of work. I have no qualms about telling a client their idea is stupid (I'm usually a little more tactful than that). In the long run, clients will appreciate your input.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749If someone is willing to work hard & do that work good, don't ever let anyone make you think that you have to sell yourself short to get your foot in the door. A big part of rookie mistakes are allowing ppl to run you ragged, or dictate how you will do business with them.
Reply:Sometimes I'm the welder/fabricator and sometimes I'm the customer.  I've seen aholes from both directions.  Not a pretty sight regardless of your perspective.I have on several occasions ask people if can watch them do the work and offered to pay for the delay caused  by my questions.  On most of those occasions when they realized I was actually interested in how the job was done they were happy to show me.  They uniformly refused to take any extra money.  I always go back by with donuts/coffee/pizza/beer or whatever seems appropriate thanks. I have been turned down, generally because of concerns over insurance issues if anything went wrong.I retired so most of the stuff I do is for me or my friends.  They know to show up ready to go to work not hang around and watch.  I will say the more complicated the task the happier I am with with more hands and additional informed opinions .
Reply:If the customer gives you prints, you collected the money in advance (i always take money first) and the piece is built to specs, and there is nothing wrong with the piece besides the customers ability to get the measurements wrong or that he changes his mind last minute, and wanted it smaller, well I always say " thats your a$$ mister postman!!"  You want me to do re-work then I get repaid.  The customer isn't always right.  This is custom welding and fabrication This Ain't some damn department store.  99% of the time the customer won't really argue with you if you lay down the law, especially with the 8 pounds sledge hammer sitting next to you.
Reply:7A749,Thanks for that, your post #22.  When you have to feed Momma and the kids, you can get a bit of different perspective.  You try your best to a point.But the part about "I don't trust you..." would have kicked in my German genes, and we all know how bad they can be.    "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:We did 44 restaurant table bases last year for a guy,to his specs. A week after they were delivered ,got a call from one of the employees wanting to drop them off,cause they decided they were 2" too high. No problem, we cut them,charged him for the time a,d mat., he paid,payment was sent out by the same employee. A few months after, the employee dropped off a 'gift certificate' from the place and said the guy was too embarrassed to deliver it himself. Gee's we ate well (and  free) for months!Brian
Reply:I have had trailer customers say 1/2 wat through they want their deposit back because its taking to long...All my extrusions are custom ordered and things from the mill can run really late..no our fault..some think its like the reality shows..not realizing they compress months worth of work into a 1 hour tv show..They sign contracts with everything spelled out but don't want to here that they signed a tentative completion date and also that gov't jobs are priority...  Also had customers verbally abuse you threaten with lawyers because we are not moving fast enough..but they are first to complain when they rush and something iwrong..does not happen often but some people think restocking is an option.. Attached Images
Reply:these ramps are priority and under time permits. Attached Images
Reply:Boney & AllThe reason to always do,the best work you can do,is to improve what you do.The better your product,the better the clients, and the afore mentioned confusions disappear.OpusI did not read the whole thread but from what I got out of it...If the customer is that much better than you or they don't trust you then when they show up just hand them the tools and say "OK Your turn"......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:All very good posts...I started this thread because I know a lot of you are talented and hate when people think your time is worthless...It burns my ***...I have never seen a custom shop that is busy ever be right on the money with giving a definate time of completion..If you give a date they will be there expecting it..Factor in the entities and vendors you rely on for parts/material etc and it gets unpredictable..I have ordered axels only to find they were bad thus starting the process over again..to many variables..Quality customers are those other than the Johnny homeowner..not all but most...keep the thread going as we all can learn from each other....
Reply:I am soon going to start making the contracts and stating there is no refunds, some of the things I make such as fishing carts... The general size is 20x40, the customer knows that, they come pay a deposit, I make it, then the come with a tape measure and literally measure over and over and over, they are looking for a single flaw so they can jump on asking for a discount or pay less Money. I've been talking to a girl who is the secratary for a mobile/shop boat repair shop, she is pretty and firm. I have been taking with her of hiring her from time to time and let the customers deal with her, she will be more firm with them than myself and being she is a pretty girl, I'm thinking she might get better results than myself
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI did not read the whole thread but from what I got out of it...If the customer is that much better than you or they don't trust you then when they show up just hand them the tools and say "OK Your turn"......zap!
Reply:Some of the calls I get or PMs from some of the web sites I have posted my work on are crazy we are getting started in custom marine fab work on boats and they have no clue what custom work means they act like I just order stuff and put it on their boat. Some of them try to save money by wanting to bring you their parts witch is junk most of the time. Or they call wanting a over the phone price then show up and what you call something is not what they call it most of the time I will not give a price untill I meet with them and see what they want. Always take 50% deposit up front.
Reply:I think there are definitely two sides to this, I have been screwed around by customers like you guys have...but... every time this discussion comes up I have to remind people why it happens - and why I personally won't support "local businesses" sometimes.  Some of my personal favorites:- I needed a flywheel for a mid 70's Ford 302.  New price at NAPA was like $80, local junkyard wanted $90 for a used one and told me to piss up a rope when I argued.- Another time I needed a spindle for a 79 Ford 4x4.  One junkyard wanted $20, the one next door wanted $100.  The explanation I got was simply "because we're better than our competitors hence the higher price."  - Farmed out an emergency u-joint repair in my pickup and paid out the *** for "quality parts, not O'Reilly/Autozone junk."  Went back to fix the dude's computer much later on, overheard him on the phone, guess where he gets ALL of his parts?  O'Reilly.  Damn liar.  Should have just fixed it myself and spent $15 on the same parts instead of $180.- Another "local business" sells new and used tools - a large amount of it is Harbor Freight stuff that's taken out of the boxes, at 2-3 times the price.  Called him on it and he got mad and called ME a liar.  Dude, tell me where else you can buy Pittsburgh and Central Machinery...come on!I have to stop there because I'm angry just thinking about it.  In the modern world, the customer has every right to nit pick local businesses because they have little to no recourse outside the courts when a job gets ****ed up, as opposed to Wal-Mart/etc that WILL make you happy without a hassle!Quite frankly I try to avoid paying "local businesses" to do something "better" when I could just do it myself for cheaper and with the same parts and no headache.That said, there are a very select few local places that I have been friends with the owners for years and trust 100%, they take care of me and I don't dink around with them either.
Reply:Originally Posted by brangerII...
Reply:The materials part was the other piece I was going to cover - I've had that issue before too and forgot to mention it.  I live in a relatively sparsely populated area with only a few suppliers for materials for anything, be it wood, metal, concrete, etc so it's not hard to guess where materials come from.  Frequently I run into situations where (for example) I could get a 20' stick of angle iron for $14 (guy-off-the-street price) and the contractor bids the same materials out at $25/stick when you KNOW they've got an account and are already getting it much cheaper than my price.  It's like saying that they're not charging enough for their labor so they have to pad everything else.  I'm not proud to admit it but I've done it, and I can understand being on both sides of that fence...I can understand why people want to bring their own materials.Don't think I'm trying to tell any of you that you're wrong, I have nothing against paying someone a fair wage for every minute of their time as well as pay for changes and I expect the same from my customers when I quote out a job.  I've been screwed around on both sides of this discussion many, many times...it's frustrating.