Stick Root on 2" Stainless ( HELP PLEASE! )

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So I have started my pipe welding journey and have done the basics. 6010 root / 7018 fill capMild Steel Tig all the wayStainless Tig all the wayAll these represented challenges but I figured them all. I'm on stick root right now on the 316 and I'm so frustrated I'm about to give up. I'm running 3/32 rod, 3/32 gap, and 3/32 landing. 50 amps for root. I've tried all different variables, ending in lack of fusion, grapes inside, or cold lap. I'm controlling the heat and feathering tacks as well. I've tried whipping but that leads to grapes on the 12 o'clock side. Note: 6 to 3 and 6 to 9 always goes in flush and looks great. It's just the top half. Can someone please point me in the right direction? I've looked all over and only found one thread that was fairly uninformative on the miller website.
Reply:I have one quick question: Why?Why are you doing that? Nobody does that in the real world. It doesn't work very well at all, so nobody does it. Spend your time doing something useful. That's why they invented TIG.
Reply:Timmy... It's not my choice lol. Like I said, I have my stainless tig tickets. Unfortunately the people I work for are paying my mortgage and if they say chase a fairy tale ticket the I have to chase it. Where I'm from, that is useful.Last edited by SudburyBaller; 02-15-2013 at 07:20 AM.
Reply:Well, good luck with that, then. I can only give you one piece of advice: Stock up on grinding wheels.
Reply:ss stick root! those test's are more common than you think. the only thing I do different is a slightly heavier land,and try reversing the polarity to dc straight, when you get to the top bury the arc,with a slight weave.that works for me! after root it's not too bad,remember do not pay attention to dripping molten slag,just keep a tight arc and watch for slag entrapment also don't forget to switch polarity back to dc reverse after root. good luck!
Reply:Switching polarity? Now that's something worth trying. Will report on that today... Attached Images
Reply:that's more than likely illegal.
Reply:Illegal or not. I'm using that trick lol. Makes my top side much more appealing.I started using more rod angle and am pleased. So far it's 3/32 gap, land and rod. 50 amps, reversed polarity. And cooled interpass tempsWill keep working on this. Hardest ticket I've ever attempted.
Reply:Also, it technically can not be illegal as the procedure for TSSA would be written for a straight polarity root. Assuming it passes the bend and destructive testing.
Reply:would be interesting to get input from the gentleman from uk (i believe pipefitter). he welds many of his open root carbon steel spools with 6013 @straight polarity. this type electrode seems to have the same runny flux and slag issues and he has mastered same. (i realize we are talking carbon vs stainless). note don't tip off polarity police. they are a division of OSHA - they know nothing about how to do your job, but they have a book that says you are doing it wrong.Last edited by dbl612; 02-15-2013 at 10:47 AM.
Reply:it depends on the procedure, some inspector's don't know any better,other's don't care.for every test I've ever done concerning lo-hy 7018,ss,inconell stick on pipe I've always run dc straight and never had any issues xray or bend.
Reply:what are they gonna do about all that slag inside the pipe?
Reply:slag get's flushed out during hydro, or air test.i've personally used this process on several tie-ins in oil refinery's and power plants.also they make a flux covered tig wire for ss application nooter uses this process extensively and is a routine test procedure.some new powerplant construction also uses stick process on root passes on p91 chrome,and I've used it for 5 and 9 chrome in refinery work.
Reply:Originally Posted by joelwelderit depends on the procedure, some inspector's don't know any better,other's don't care.for every test I've ever done concerning lo-hy 7018,ss,inconell stick on pipe I've always run dc straight and never had any issues xray or bend.
Reply:Originally Posted by joelwelderslag get's flushed out during hydro, or air test.i've personally used this process on several tie-ins in oil refinery's and power plants.also they make a flux covered tig wire for ss application nooter uses this process extensively and is a routine test procedure.some new powerplant construction also uses stick process on root passes on p91 chrome,and I've used it for 5 and 9 chrome in refinery work.
Reply:Originally Posted by SudburyBallerYour saying straight polarity just on the root. Or throughout? And with 70/18?
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGI don't know, I've been doing this 30 years and I've never seen anybody run stick rod roots on alloy pipe in a refinery or power plant. They don't even like to run 6010 on carbon anymore, all TIG.Not to mention the hex chrome aspect to it these days, we're not even allowed to stick rod chrome at all on this job because of all the PPE required for hex chrome exposure.
Reply:That was my employers point of view aswell. 14" pipe ( tig vs stick) obviously your gonna make up time and money with smaw, and as stated if the X-ray passes then its almost a no brainer.
Reply:OK, then... all's I can say is, better you than me!
Reply:E316-15 has a faster freezing slag than-16 or-17 rods. Should be easier to handle on an open root,but they  are a bit tougher to get started.
Reply:Originally Posted by ironrailE316-15 has a faster freezing slag than-16 or-17 rods. Should be easier to handle on an open root,but they  are a bit tougher to get started.
Reply:if it was easy everyone would be doing it! a refinery here in the northeast used 309 ss stick test as it's gate test! for all contractor's with bend no xray.finally changed after having tough time filling union hall ticket's.
Reply:Here is a link to explain it better http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/FM_handbook/577fm2_1.htm