piping finally finished, thank god

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here are some pics of our most recent project we just completed. 1400+ hours by 1 fitter, 1 welder/fitter, 1 welder, and 1 hvac guy. so much pipe crammed into a tiny box. wondering if anyone knows how to bid on a job like this (hours wise)? i think my employer tremendously underbid on this onehere are a few specstig root and hotpass, 7018 fill/cap schedule 40 carbon 79 six inch pipe welds104 four inch pipe welds120 three inch pipe welds 14 two inch pipe welds60 3/4 inch olets and 21 four inch sch10 stainless Attached ImagesLast edited by sjmj1966; 06-30-2011 at 06:06 PM.
Reply:few more pics Attached Images
Reply:Now thats Pretty
Reply:Holy Moley - that's a lot of weld in a small space... for sure.I guess each weld gets progressively more difficult as you have to work around the other completed pipe sections.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Im a rooky Pipe welder so please forgive me for this question.....but was most of that welded in place or floor welded then hung ? and what sch is that ?
Reply:Originally Posted by coobreeze9Im a rooky Pipe welder so please forgive me for this question.....but was most of that welded in place or floor welded then hung ? and what sch is that ?
Reply:Number of joints times X $$$ + material + markup = bid
Reply:I like too bench weld whenever possible, but sometimes your not gonna lift the project back off the bench!!Looks like a big *** coil for a really big *** air handler. Chilled water?Smooth layout, looks great!Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:I'm guessing that with all the black steel pipe, lug type butterfly valves, Victaulic couplings, low pressure flanges, lack of fire suppression system (no red pipe), and those large heat exchangers that this is some sort of water cooling system...roof mounted possibly...enclosure looks like galvanized steel...commercial application, not petrochem or oil and gas.  Was I close?  Curious as to why the pipe spec break from carbon steel to stainless...separate services?  sst downstream of filtration system?In our business, skidded packages are bid based on:Piping size and class (150#, 300#,  2500#, ?), piping material (carbon steel, stainless, etc), piping length (estimated), number of fittings (and therefore number of welds), bought out items (valves, instruments, equipment), wiring, conduit, j-boxes....this applies to materials and labor.The skid (frame) is also bid based on preliminary BOM's usually extracted from past projects.  Sometimes the skid weight is estimated and a labor cost assumed based on $/ton of fabricated steel.  Each shop has it's own guidelines/go-bys.The enclosure is usually (my experience) a bought out item.  Not too hard to get a quick quote on this.  Vendor needs L x W x H plus material/accoustic/environmental/coating requirements, number of doors, cut-outs, etc.Then we figure in engineering/design...not cheap...many times this is farmed out to a small local design firm.  This needs to take into account not only the shop drawings and equipment purchase specifications but also the client documentation requirements (extra calculations, studies, etc.)Also...sandblast/paint, transportation, testing and commissioning services, warranty reserve, third party inspection (NDT, UT, RT), third party certification (insurers req'mnt), taxes, any additional client required project controls reporting (monthly schedule updates).Then add for overhead...usually the shop applies a multiplier to the overall cost...each shop will have their own multiplier based on their production history.  This will include shop admin, utilities, etc.  Profit may be included or added separately.Lots of stuff here...easy to get it wrong and lose the job or lose money if you get the job.All in all, that's a pretty crowded skid but nice execution.Miller 211 w/ spool gunMiller Dynasty 200DXLongevity 60i IGBT plasmaO/A w/ crappy chinese torch/gaugesSouth Bend 10K latheGrizzly 4029 10x54 millGrizzly 7x12 hor bandsawangle grnders, bench grnder, bench belt sndr7.5 hp 80gal cmprsor
Reply:Originally Posted by MadMax31I like too bench weld whenever possible, but sometimes your not gonna lift the project back off the bench!!Looks like a big *** coil for a really big *** air handler. Chilled water?Smooth layout, looks great!
Reply:Originally Posted by BTDI'm guessing that with all the black steel pipe, lug type butterfly valves, Victaulic couplings, low pressure flanges, lack of fire suppression system (no red pipe), and those large heat exchangers that this is some sort of water cooling system...roof mounted possibly...enclosure looks like galvanized steel...commercial application, not petrochem or oil and gas.  Was I close?  Curious as to why the pipe spec break from carbon steel to stainless...separate services?  sst downstream of filtration system?.
Reply:Originally Posted by sjmj1966nail on the head man. as far as bidding goes im just courious as to how to calculate just the amount of time involved in fitting and welding. they told us it should only take 750hrs and we about doubled it
Reply:heres my question: what is the line of thought behind heli-arc root and cushion? Seems a tad excessive for regular ol' hvac piping. Obviously Im not aware of some factor here, just wondering.
Reply:Originally Posted by citizen smithheres my question: what is the line of thought behind heli-arc root and cushion? Seems a tad excessive for regular ol' hvac piping. Obviously Im not aware of some factor here, just wondering.
Reply:the threaded strainer in post two..blowoff  should be full sized, certainly not bushed and the valve stem should not be down like it is
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadthe threaded strainer in post two..blowoff  should be full sized, certainly not bushed and the valve stem should not be down like it is
Reply:Ok please dont read this as me "challenging" you, but when you say "if youre going to do it, do it right"  can you elaborate on that? To me the advantages of having a heli-arc root are nil on this type of application. Im no lifelong guru but Im no stranger to installing air handler piping either.. Im just wondering what the engineering advantage is to a heli-arc root as opposed to the traditional 5p root.... I wouldnt complain because all that extra weld is good work and good money, but from an engineering standpoint Im wondering how they justify it.
Reply:Originally Posted by sjmj1966nail on the head man. as far as bidding goes im just courious as to how to calculate just the amount of time involved in fitting and welding. they told us it should only take 750hrs and we about doubled it
Reply:Originally Posted by citizen smithOk please dont read this as me "challenging" you, but when you say "if youre going to do it, do it right"  can you elaborate on that? To me the advantages of having a heli-arc root are nil on this type of application. Im no lifelong guru but Im no stranger to installing air handler piping either.. Im just wondering what the engineering advantage is to a heli-arc root as opposed to the traditional 5p root.... I wouldnt complain because all that extra weld is good work and good money, but from an engineering standpoint Im wondering how they justify it.
Reply:this is very cramped and productivity will be low. you could comfortably use your known unitpricing , based on your own guys known stats.for  bench welding..but hangers, field welds, you better review and add allownances to customize labor figures.these types of installations are prefabbed to eliminate field labor, and as such are usually quite expensive..so muchso that ive never been able to justify buying onecompared to my known field costs..huge rigging cost for this puppy as well...and just wait till it comes on site and the unionguys start to find fault...fitters, electricians,tinknockers will all have problems in hooking it up...and it looks like the insulator still has to do his  work..Last edited by weldbead; 07-02-2011 at 09:33 AM.
Reply:You get all the fun jobs.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Quick Pen or some other computer estimating program.  You WILL have prints for a job like this and engineers spec's to bid from.  Extras are money makers.  Engineers don't know it all and changes or extras   is where you get to correct mistakes they make.  Plus you said they prefabbed 80%, which is more than likely the only way you get get those welds done.Retired - Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician-  IowaLots of Hobbys