AC/DC stick choice dilemma

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welding newb here. Trying to decide between the Hobart and the Lincoln tombstone. I read as much as I could and both get excellent reviews. The capabilities on both seem to be exactly the same and the price. The Home Depot version weighs 124 lb and the Hobart is about 20lb less. Probably they threw lead in the heavier one. LOLI'm aware that aluminum is problamatic but possible and that cutting with one of these is kind of ugly, since I spent all day yesterday watching YouTube vids of this.Pls don't try to steer me to MIG. Any advice on my Qs would be appreciated.DaveV
Reply:Why would you want to stick weld in AC? It sucks IMO.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I'm going to assume you are looking at standard ac/dc versions.I think it comes down to infinite adjustment vs the steps on the tombstone.  Personal choice on that one.  I own both styles and both will weld just fine for you Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Personally I'd look at used vs new for a machine like this. There are tons of older transformer machines out there on CL for 1/2 the money.I regularly see AC only stick machines going for $50-150. AC/DC units go from $250-500 and can be found for less on occasion. Lincolns and Millers are great, but don't overlook Dayton. Montgomery Wards, Craftsman's, Centrury, Marque and other "off" brands. Most were either made by one of the "big" name makers ( Century made a great many of them, and still is a "big" name maker, even if most aren't familiar with their machines, they are currently owned by Lincoln) and are simply rebadged units.You can also find some really nice older industrial stick machines in both AC and AC/DC. Miller Dialarc's and Lincoln Idealarc's as well as some of the industrial Hobarts are awesome units. Most sell for $400-700 and are WAY more machine than those small home owner stick machines. On some rare occasions you can even find "dedicated" tig machines in this range as well, and get not only a stick machine, but a machine capable of tig as well. I've seen some rebadged Miller 330 A/BP's in this price range.Don't be too scarred of buying a used transformer stick machine. Most have zero electronics to go bad. They are built like tanks and even if they do break, the parts are usually very simple to find and fix. As long as everything moves ( stuck cranks and levers are a typical problem and usually just need to be disassembled and cleaned and lubed to work right) and it powers up and welds, chances are high you'd be able to pass it on to your great grand kids in working condition. One other up side. Most of these used machines hold their values very well. Chances are very high that you can easily get almost every penny back if you ever decide to upgrade, say to a tig/stick machine. Rick V here bought several older transformer stick machines, did a nice clean and paint job on them and actually managed to sell them for way more than he paid for them. I've seen several machines members here restored that are worth at least double what they paid now.Buy used and take the money you save and put it into a good top quality hood or practice materials..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW: I see a ton of used AC in my area on craigslist. Not that many AC/DC (Washington DC area). A hobart and lincoln retail for about $500 ballpark. The rare ones I see used outside my area are usually $400 +. My thinking is to just spring for the difference and get a new one with warranty. Actually my wife's thinking on that.One quick question. This morning I'm going to HF to pick up an adjustable shade auto dark helmet:http://www.harborfreight.com/adjusta...met-46092.htmlany cautions?Anyway, appreciate you guys putting up with newbs. Once I start welding I'll probably be back with QsDave
Reply:I've used several of the HF hoods when I've loaned students my Miller. Optics are fair at best, the sensors regularly flash me while the hood will darken as soon as I look at the big work table in the shop due to the reflection from the overhead lights ( my miller never does that). Makes tack up a PITA since it really becomes a manual hood at that point.I think you can get a much nicer hood, for just a bit more money. Hobart, Miller and Lincoln all have "hobby" grade hoods that are better in quality for less than say $125 or so. My old Jackson Shadow fixed shade hood is "dirt" cheap, and the clarity rivals my $300 Miller or the instructors Speedglass. TRue it's not an AD hood, but it works every time and really will help you see the puddle better.I've got to run out to see a client at 8:30. If I get back at lunch and remember, I'll try to do a quick CL search in that area and see if I spot any deals for you. I've got family in the Fairfax/Alexandria area and their zip code should pull up stuff close enough to you..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW, much thanks!
Reply:Don't forget to look in the local ad papers, like bulletin board and such ( I don't know which ones are printed in your area). For around $2 for a paper you can sometimes find a good bargain.
Reply:DSW: I sent you a PM for a used 2005 Hobart to get your opin.I didn't want to post the link b/c every time I do that for stuff, people snap it up first, if you know what I mean.Anyway, I emailed the gent and told him I'm interested. I'm thinking at the very least I should have him demo it to ensure it works. Wouldn't you agree? Even though everyone says these things last forever.Dave
Reply:Seems as you don't want to cheap out on a machine....so don't cheap out on a helmet.Htp striker helmet is 99 free shipping and about the best in that price range. If you want to step it up go miller, Lincoln, Jackson, etc. cyber-weld has a lot of helmets to pick from. Don't go to harbor freight.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:thanks: you mean this one, right?http://www.usaweld.com/Striker-Steal...p/90130-wg.htmLet me know and I'll get it ordered
Reply:Oh, btw, one more question, besides a demo (maybe in AC/DC modes), is there anything else I should be aware of when buying used other than obvious things like frayed cords and stuff that's obvious? For example, when it's turned on are there any noises the machine makes that should alert me to problems. Stuff like that?You guys are a great resource!!ThanksLast edited by SE18; 03-18-2013 at 09:21 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by SE18thanks: you mean this one, right?http://www.usaweld.com/Striker-Steal...p/90130-wg.htmLet me know and I'll get it ordered
Reply:If you don't mind the drive, you can often get good deals off the Norfolk Craigslist.  There was a Lincoln ac/dc the other day for $225.  It looked good and had the original Lincoln twin-carbon torch.  There's a Hobart ac/dc on now for under $400. and an AC-only Lincoln for $50.There's an older Miller Econotwin ac/dc, with a Sears high-frequency box on the Richmond CL - "make offer".  Also a clean Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Welder on a Harper oxy-acet cart - $350.  Sell the cart. Closest to you would be a Hobart Stickmate LX ac/dc in Culpeper for $225.  I'd be all over that one."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:thanks; the seller I contacted in my area is asking $225 for Hobart ac/dc. I emailed him about an hour ago. I imagine now everyone on this board is emailing the poor fellow. LOLI still need to know if it is considered in proper etiquette to ask for a demo or something just to see it work.
Reply:If there is nothing wrong with it he should let you demo it. If he says no then maybe he is hiding somethng. I wouldn't buy it used if I couldn't try it out unless it was listed as broke.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:For a shield, if I was gonna go autodark, I would go with a cheap $50 Northern Tool solar-powered one until I was sure I really wanted autodark.I've never seen an autodark that let you see the puddle as well as a decent non-autodark. You might want to go to a local vo-tech or community college and ask to try/compare the shields they have there, before spending your money on one. Or at any rate, I wouldn't go spending a lot of $ on an autodark, because IME, you can't see any better out of the $300 autodarks than you can out of the $50 autodarks,Good luck in whatever you choose.
Reply:You must be blind. There is a WORLD of difference. And northern tool is the same as harbor freight.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinI've never seen an autodark that let you see the puddle as well as a decent non-autodark.
Reply:Originally Posted by SE18DSW: I sent you a PM for a used 2005 Hobart to get your opin.
Reply:I had to make the same choice last year. I went with the Hobart due to the adjustability and slightly better specs of the Hobart. They are both good welders, though.Last edited by JD955SC; 03-18-2013 at 01:28 PM.
Reply:The striker stealth helmet in the link I found above says it's adjustable, which I guess means if you can't see what you're doing you can adjust it.DSW: I passed on another welding unit that didn't have a plug and couldn't be tested on the spot.I'm awaiting word on the $225 Hobart. Bet he's getting email bombed, probably a lot of people snapping up bargains and reselling would be my guess.Dave VUSMC '74-'95South Bend 9A lathe 1942Marquette stick welder, oxy/acy, FCAWBuild 7/8 scale trains
Reply:Hey, I saw a nice Lincoln AC225 (ac only) with a fair sized box of rods, only $500.  Maybe they would share some of what they are smoking?"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I own a Lincoln AC-225 and a Hobart stickmate LX AC/DC...could just be personal preference, but I like the Hobart much better.If you search the web, there is a way to get scratch and dent welders from Hobart at a discount. I actually got mine as a scratch and dent from TSC for $100 off. The only thing wrong with it was a cosmetic ding in the sheet metal that was easy to fix. The internals were perfect and it welds great.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:quick update. I contacted the fellow with the Hobart bargain ($225 for AC/DC). He said he only used it several times since purchase in 2004. I asked him if he could just briefly turn it on for a quick 2 minute demo. He told me he didn't have the 220V plug in his house and that he had several other callers. So I passed on the appparently good deal after telling him he could hook it up at my house. Guess I'm stupid for passing it up, but I just wanted to see it turned on at least.Back to looking.Dave VUSMC '74-'95South Bend 9A lathe 1942Marquette stick welder, oxy/acy, FCAWBuild 7/8 scale trainsI've bought two welders that couldn't be tested.  Both sellers were OK with me bringing the unit back promptly if it didn't fire up. If I see anything promising, I'll give you a heads-up.Edit:  I wonder what this $150. Lincoln thing is:http://smd.craigslist.org/tls/3690651265.htmlLast edited by Oldendum; 03-20-2013 at 08:13 AM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:thanks you sir. That $150 thing IS kinda weird. A lot of low-cost AC sticks out there. I've just heard so much advise in getting DC as well, from surfing all over the web. I still want to see whatever I get running, even if for just a minute. That can't be too much to ask. Otherwise, I'm waiting for my eBay film camera stuff to sell (Canon) and buy new.Dave VUSMC '74-'95South Bend 9A lathe 1942Marquette stick welder, oxy/acy, FCAWBuild 7/8 scale trains
Reply:Keep an eye on that Hobart and see if it sells. I would have had no issue buying that one even if I couldn't test it, but I can understand your hesitation not to take that chance. Deals will come around again if you are patient and willing to wait.  If it sits for a while, the seller may be willing to bargain some more.The $150 Lincoln is a tough call without picts. I've seen several guys who buy a "lot" at an auction and then part out what they don't want. I've also seen the auctioneer take lots that no one bids on and simply lump them into the next lot at total auctions when businesses close. All they really want to do is clear the stuff out, and sometimes a buyer will end up with things they had zero interest in, simply because the lots sat next to each other. I'd shoot the guy an email and ask for a couple of picts..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Use a DC machine. Go on Craigslist and find a good DC machine and also get one with a variable AMP setting not switched by steps. Get one with the squeeze handle to set it or the crank on it to set it. That way you will be able to use it to do TIG also if you wanted. There are plenty on Craigslist at half the price of new and even less. Something like a MIller Thunderbolt or a Dayton type is good too. Lots of companies make them and the older ones are most likely better then the new ones because the older ones have copper winding in them compared to the newer ones with aluminum windings.
Reply:SE18,If you get stuck and absolute need a welder to feed the habit while you shop, I have one you can borrow.  It's a gently-used Lincoln AC180C.  I haven't used it and bought it untested, but I'm sure it welds as well as it did when it was new in 1952.  I gave $50. for it and it has a money-back guarantee if it doesn't work.  (Just have to try it out while the old guy is still alive.)  I bought it because it was cute.  It has infinitely adjustable current, too."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:They say 180C's are smooth welders compared to modern 225's.I have one sitting half disassembled for restoration which I want to try welding with just to compare!
Reply:If he would guaranteed it to work (IE would take it back if not), you had no reason to pass. Very little to go wrong there!- Tim
Reply:thanks Oldendum; PMing your way.DaveDave VUSMC '74-'95South Bend 9A lathe 1942Marquette stick welder, oxy/acy, FCAWBuild 7/8 scale trains
Reply:Originally Posted by tadawsonIf he would guaranteed it to work (IE would take it back if not), you had no reason to pass. Very little to go wrong there!- Tim
Reply:Originally Posted by SE18thanks Oldendum; PMing your way.Dave
Reply:Originally Posted by SE18quick update. I contacted the fellow with the Hobart bargain ($225 for AC/DC). He said he only used it several times since purchase in 2004. I asked him if he could just briefly turn it on for a quick 2 minute demo. He told me he didn't have the 220V plug in his house and that he had several other callers. So I passed on the appparently good deal after telling him he could hook it up at my house. Guess I'm stupid for passing it up, but I just wanted to see it turned on at least.Back to looking.
Reply:OK, recruit, saddle up and go get that thing!"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder