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Hey guys, been reading for literally months on this and for my needs have narrowed it to a few different machines but wanted some input as well as clarification on a few things. In advance, thank you for your help and sorry for opening yet another post like this..I know they get old.The main uses for a welder for me are sheet metal on a older car I am restoring, it needs floor pans, trunk pans and a few places cut out on the body for rust repair. The heavier side of my projects I will be doing are bumpers with recovery points for my sons jeep. That will range from 3/16 to 1/4 inch for the bumper and frame tie ins with two 5/8 or 3/4 d-ring tabs welded to the frame tie ins, and the bumper front and back, several guys will take 3 pieces of 1/4 welded together for the d-ring tabs instead of trying to weld 5/8 or 3/4..that is an option as well I would think if the edges were beveled and could get enough weld to tie them together.I have welded before but currently my welder is a 170 amp harbor freight unit that I dont fully trust as its erratic from day to day and was an impulse buy that I regret, with that said its time for something a bit better.My options aremiller 211 @ 1045 from my lws, should weld what I need and be a decent machine for years to come.esab caddy mig 200 @ 900 from an esab rep. Demo unit with full warranty. I dont know so much about these machines but a nice selling point is what the rep called the 100 day satisfaction, if I am not satisfied for any reason I can get my money back, no questions asked. That is standing behind a product IMHO.Thermal Arc 181i @ 800 online. This machine is a bit under powered I think, but does offer the stick option that should allow me to burn in a bit more on the heavier stuff, correct?Thermal Arc 211i with cart @ 1154 online, Seems like a better option then the 181 but the cost is higher as well.I havent set in stone any of these machines, if I am missing a better option around the same costs please let me know.I already have a 160 tank with argon/c02 mix and a 60 amp sub panel in my garage, also have a 6k generator if needed but I think I would be fine on the 60 amp as its only running a few lights and my compressor, which wouldnt have to run when I was welding anyways.thanks for any advice you guys can offer. I think experience from guys actually welding is worth twice what the salesman can offer. I will also be in the market for a plasma cutter, but think that will have to wait a bit for some additional funds to go with it.Last edited by Cons73; 03-07-2013 at 11:01 AM.
Reply:I demoed the ThermalArc181i, and was impressed. I would choose the Fabricator211i over it though, as you mentioned for the increased capacity. Mig, and tig both worked very well on the 181i, with a good range on the optional SSC controls foot pedal, albeit liftarc initiation, and no gas soloniod. But for the real deal, the 252i is the deal of the day. Mig, tig, stick, spoolgun with run-in control for less than $2k, and assemble here in the good ole USA.Not knocking Miller, but the ThermalArc Fabricator line is excellent. I don't care for the Esab line very much, and very few dealers carry consumables or parts.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for the reply. The 181 for the cost really has my attention. .But it would struggle for 1/4 inch and anything more, would the stick option allow me to weld a bit more or would it remain the same as the mig in terms of thickness? Thanks again
Reply:I was in the same situation as you with my welder needs. Body work and some heavier stuff. I went with the millermatic 211. It's works really well for the stuff we do. It's a bit more expensive but I forgot about the pain of handing over that money a few minutes after picking up.
Reply:Hmm, not sure why my font has gotten smaller, I am on my phone now though. I see the first 2 posts full size then the next few small font. Anyways, hambone2004, how do you find the arc on the 211 when using it for body panels? You are running argon/c02 I imagine, what wire are you using? The Miller was my first thought after leaving my lws but in doing research so many other options come up. Thanks
Reply:Another vote for the Miller 211. It works great on sheet metal, to thicker stuff with a 30% duty cycle on a 240v circuit. It's a very powerful and compact welder that performs on anything for the home shop.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:My lws is going to call me in the morning with what they can do price wise on the Miller 211 with some wire and a new helmet. My current helmet is a harbor freight auto that does whatever the hell it wants to. If they don't want to much more for the helmet I will go with it. I really like the thermal arc 211i but can only order it as none of my local shops carry them which makes me think service might be an issue if ever need. The esab caddy mig still interest me but the same as the thermal unit, can't find them local. Lincoln seems to not have a unit comparable to these, from what I could tell the 140/180 dual is all they have unless I want to spend considerably more at 1800 bucks for the 216. Looking at the Hobart 210mvp recently for 899 but for 150 more the Miller just seems a bit better.Last edited by Cons73; 03-07-2013 at 10:24 PM.
Reply:For thin ga sheet metal, as long as the steel is clean, I'd want a soft low end arc. If the material has a some pitting ( contamination you can't get rid of) I'd probably want to add a touch of crispness to this soft arc, to aid in burning through the contamination. Based on this thought process, I'd be wanting to go with either the Fab 211i or the ESAB Caddy 200, so that I could use the inductance control to my advantage.Both of the above units are going to offer you a little more top end power than the MM 211I am just not a big fan on the hobbyist oriented compact Miller units. The low end arc is OK to good. The upper end arc is a little harsh/rough with somewhat sluggish weld puddle wet out.If it offered more top end power, I'd say go with a Lincoln PM 180C. It has an excellent low end arc. However, it struggles with 1/4" when set up with solid wire.If you'd be will to spend a little more, to gain a significant increase in top end power over what you're currently considering, Hobart's Ironman 230 has a real good low end for thin ga sheet metal.Last edited by Dan; 03-07-2013 at 10:52 PM.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Originally Posted by Cons73 Looking at the Hobart 210mvp recently for 899 but for 150 more the Miller just seems a bit better.
Reply:Alright, that's good information. My car does have some areas that have mild pitting but nothing major, I didn't want to cut it out that far as it gets into the b pillar and is not rusted out just a bit rough. I will reconsider the other machines again, just repairs should they ever be needed wouldn't be as convenient. The Hobart 210 is actuality fairly cheap, available local as well. Might be miss information but I have heard they aren't as nice of machines as Miller, Lincoln etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cons73Alright, that's good information. My car does have some areas that have mild pitting but nothing major, I didn't want to cut it out that far as it gets into the b pillar and is not rusted out just a bit rough. I will reconsider the other machines again, just repairs should they ever be needed wouldn't be as convenient. The Hobart 210 is actuality fairly cheap, available local as well. Might be miss information but I have heard they aren't as nice of machines as Miller, Lincoln etc.
Reply:Cons73,I have a completely different opinion. First, walk into the majority of the LWS stores and you'll find Lincoln and Miller parts and consumables. Thermalarc??? Maybe. ESAB??? Forget it. Slim to none or rarely will you see a plethora of parts and consumables for that brand. It's like trying to find Yugo parts nowadays. Sure, ordering anything on the Internet can be had, but when you need something "right now" instead of tomorrow, waiting for UPS, FedEx or snail-mail might not cut it with the off brand equipment. Especially when you have a LWS right down the street and you can take 30 minutes out to run down, grab your parts and get back to fabricating. Second, Miller has a "full warranty" too, just like all the brands we are talking about. Third, no matter how you try to label it, Hobart still has more plastic components than does the Miller. The Miller drive system is more robust than Hobart in my opinion. Personally, I think Lincoln makes the best dual drive roller system on earth for their bigger class machines but that's for another thread. Sure Hobart is "fine" but Miller is "better" between the two brands. Fourth, the Miller 211 has the beautiful "continuous" voltage control rheostat. Last time I checked, Hobart is stepped. To me, that difference right there, makes all the difference in the world as far as a sale goes. I don't care what anybody claims, those that have "stepped" voltage control, wish they had "continuous." My Lincoln 216 is stepped and I wish it was continuous. Back to the 211...... It has plenty of power to weld 3/8" without hassle. Hell, a car or truck nowadays generally doesn't have it's frame thicker than 1/8" if that! A bumper on a truck these days doesn't even come close to 1/4" steel unless one makes their own. Ask yourself, what are you REALLY going to weld 99% of the time? If you're going to weld thicker than 3/8" all the time, I'd suggest either a Miller 252, Lincoln 255 or other bigger class machines from various brands. For sheet metal, soft arc vs crisp arc, its not going to matter. You get used to either or quickly and a good welder can adjust to any characteristic of his own "quality" welder. Notice, i said "quality" welder. If you buy crap equipment, you'll get crap welds. Horrible Fright" brand tops the list for crap machines. Many wont like reading that, but that's reality. I do panels, fenders, bumpers, (thin stuff) often with both a 211 and my bigger class welder (Lincoln 216). Sticking with the 211 here, it's a superb machine for thin metals like auto body panel work etc...So, get what you want, but always remember its nice to get something that has plentiful parts and service everywhere you go.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I doubt that the car he's restoring is a newer type.Where are you located?There are countless used options available that may save you alot of coin and get you a bigger better machine.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:.023 - .035 drive rolls are supplied with the Fabricator 211i. Since the average hobbyist isn't putting in 40 + hrs a week of weld time in on their unit, drive rolls last for years. I've been running the same .030 drive roll on my Migmaster 250 for over 7 years.The gun supplied with the 211i uses Tweco 11 series contact tips. I can find 11 series contact tips at any local welding supply store, Home depot (Lincoln Magnums), Ace hardware, and the local farm stores. I don't know about the gun liner for the 211i. However, if you treat the gun properly, the liner should last for years, especially with light duty usage it'll see from a hobbyist. Treat the gun properly , and you should have plenty of time to order a spare, so that you have a new liner available when it is finally needed.The Hobart 210 MVP , and MM 211 use the same contact tips, gun liner, and drive rolls. Owning a Migmaster 250, Ironman 230, and MM 210, I personally feel the short circuit transfer 200 amp units like the MM 211 or Handler 210 MVP are a borderline 3/8" unit when the weld is critical in nature. Honestly I feel they're best suited for 1/4" and thinner. On thinner ga sheet a softer low end arc provides a definite advantage, especially if you end up with less than perfect fit up or have holes to fill. If one of my main purposes for purchasing the unit was thinner ga material I'd definitely be looking for the unit that gives me the most control. Why increase the difficulty level of the task when you don't have to? I can drive a 6d finish nail in with a 3 lb sledge hammer , but I am not going to use it over a 16 oz claw hammer that provides me with finer control for the task. Yes, the MM 211 is capable of welding thin ga sheet but there are other units available that are a little better at it. I own 7 MIG units each one performs a little differently on the low end. If I had a thin ga sheet project to do I'd be reaching for the gun of the Migmaster 250 or Ironman 230 first over the others. My PM 180C is just as good for this application as the other 2, but it takes a little more time playing with the voltage and wire speed dials to get it to run as well as the other two do. Selecting tap 1 or 2 and then adjusting the wire speed is just simpler.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:I bought a Miller years ago, and never looked back. It does everything and more that I have ever expected. I would not second guess Miller's stuff. Not to bash Lincoln's stuff, I've just never used their equipment.---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcCons73,Fourth, the Miller 211 has the beautiful "continuous" voltage control rheostat. Last time I checked, Hobart is stepped. To me, that difference right there, makes all the difference in the world as far as a sale goes. I don't care what anybody claims, those that have "stepped" voltage control, wish they had "continuous." My Lincoln 216 is stepped and I wish it was continuous.
Reply:Originally Posted by copeIf this was the case, no one would make stepped machines because they wouldn't sell. I have had both, and I much prefer stepped. Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, and the others know this, and offer both types in their line up.
Reply:Wow, a lot of good posts. Gives me more insight to the different units.I live in the Raleigh/Durham area of North Carolina and have been checking CL several times day but haven't seen anything that interests me yet. I Have called every lws in my area and all they have are red and blue even though they are authorized dealers for esab and thermal arc. Not real sure why they don't at least stock a machine or 2 to give buyers a look at them. I am going into my lws today, I was talking with the area manager and he said they worked me up some prices and come in to discuss the different options. I know though all the carry are Lincolns and Miller's, I would like to at least see the others. On another note the esab rep called me and he has a power cut 650 plasma cutter new in the box he will sell me for 800, he said they are discontinuing that model but it's still a great cutter. Does anyone have any experience with that particular unit? Thanks again for all the replies
Reply:Originally Posted by copeIf this was the case, no one would make stepped machines because they wouldn't sell. I have had both, and I much prefer stepped. Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, and the others know this, and offer both types in their line up.
Reply:Er, the gun that comes with the 211i -is- a Tweco. Thermal Arc and Tweco are both divisions of Victor.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Well..I went to my lws yesterday and walked out with the 211. I wanted the thermal arc but they said it wouldnt come with a warranty even though it was a demo unit..that kinda turned me off from them, could have gotten it else but decided on buying local. Really was interested in the esab but they sold the plasma cutter out from under me so I decided screw em. I got a decent deal on what I purchased locally, 1171 out the door for the welder, 2 11lbs spools of wire and some extra tips plus millers running a deal where you get a rebate. Its only 5% but still its 5%. Thanks for the advice and information.
Reply:Well, settling for 4th best , out of the units you were considering, is still probably going to be an upgrade from the H F 170 unit.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Ouch lol. Reality is it really is the last one I expected to buy but... well it's done. Don't have much metal to even play with right now, had some behind our shop but it's gone. My guess is it grew legs. Did have a small plate at home that I just laid some beads on because I just had to try it out. What I can say is I have no idea how the esab or thermal arc machine lay a bead but the miller compared to my harbor freight is no comparison. The miller, as it should just out classes the hf unit in big ways. I am looking forward to actually getting some metal to play with now.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cons73Hmm, not sure why my font has gotten smaller, I am on my phone now though. I see the first 2 posts full size then the next few small font. Anyways, hambone2004, how do you find the arc on the 211 when using it for body panels? You are running argon/c02 I imagine, what wire are you using? The Miller was my first thought after leaving my lws but in doing research so many other options come up. Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcTo,each his own. However trying to figure out the continuous variable is easy. If someone can't figure out how to fine tune their variable voltage, I question if they would even know which way to put a welding helmet on their head.Dan,You own "7" mig machines? That doesn't sound like a home hobbiest shop to me. That sounds like your a paid professional and that's a different league than what the OP wants to play in. Also, you mentioned using Tweco parts for your 211i.... That's fine, but most home users just want something simple and easy and not have to worry about mix-matching parts. Miller goes with miller, Lincoln with Lincoln etc..... Why shop around and cross referencing parts and stuff when you don't have to?Just a little follow up for anyone else thinking of similar machines, I am very satisfied with the 211, haven't done a whole lot with it yet as been mainly cutting out panels so far but did play with it some and it lays out a nice weld. Puddle flows nicely and the autoset works well however I find it a bit low on heat, still a nice feature to have. Also didn't realize it's not for . 023 wire so find myself setting manually for the bit I have done.
Reply:Good bro! I love mine! Do you have it hooked up to 220 it 110? I don't care what anybody says. I don't regret getting it.
Reply:Yeah, it's miles above my old harbor fright machine. It's hooked up to 220 but do like the option of 110 if needed. Definitely do not regret the purchase although some time in the future I will get one of the TA machines for stick and tig just to play around with only have to wait for this economy to change or win the lotto... Wait, I don't play it... SOB.
Reply:I hear that. I would like get a tig machine. But I just can't convince myself. Soooo... What's the first project?
Reply:Actually was thinking some sheet metal repairs on my car I have been restoring but started fabricating some bumper mounts for my son's Jeep, going to make some recovery bumpers for it. Any luck might get some time with it tomorrow as just finished the mounts today. Also sacrificed one of my dollies for a base for a cart to hold everything... Just needed something in a pinch. Attached Images |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:35:27