Advice for Generator for TIG/MIG...

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Hello there,I've been getting 'numerous' requests for small welding jobs that some of my acquaintainces and clients (non-welding related clients) would like to have done..  I have NO idea what would run my units and need advice as to what might actually work without causing me to shell out an arm AND a leg.  I'm VERY MUCH looking for [B]'Portability'[/B and was hopeing that I might be able to get that, considering my needs are quite 'meager'.TIG welder is Miller Diversion 165. 30amps, but works on any 50amp NEMA plug.   Input Power:  MIG welder (which I haven't picked up yet) is going to be the Miller 211 Auto-set with MVP.  Input Power:  230 V, 25 A, 60 Hz, 1-Phase and 120 V, 20 A, 60 Hz, 1-PhaseThanks for your help!Cheers,/Jman...Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:To get a rough idea, you take the amps you want to run and multiply it by the volts to get the wattage. Amps x Volts = Watts. So 30 amps x 230 V = 6900 watts. Then I'd bump it up a bit for loss since the system won't be perfect. Also remember many small gen sets are not rated by thier continuous wattage, but by the surge wattage. Thats the spike that motors cause when they start up like an air conditioner or compressor. For your welder, you will want a gen set with a cont wattage ratting of 7KW to use the max power from your machines. I'd go 8- 10Kw as a minimum, but you could probably get away with a 5.5- 6 kw  cont. unit at reduced weld power. You may find when you hit the 10Kw area it's almost as expensive to get a dedicated welder/generator like a Hobart Champion or Miller Bobcat as it is a new 10 KW stand alone gen set.There has been some discussion in the past about running some welders off gensets. Some say yes, some say no. If you get new, I'd look for a genset thats designed to produce clean power for computers and other electronics to protect the machines from  power spikes..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hey jman,Doug(DSW) is correct regarding the output requirements with a genset that will be used for portable power. Most gensets list the surge wattage ratings instead of the running wattage ratings to make it look more enticing to the unwary buyer. I use a 7.5kw running(8.75kw surge) gen on my mobile unit that runs all my equipment. I modified mine with added receptacles for the different plugs my extensions & units have. My gen is a brushless unit that my neighbor checked with a very elaborate piece of power testing equipment & he indicated my gen has a very stable, clean output. I have never had any issues with powering any of my tools/welders/compressor. You can find good deals on Craigslist if you shop carefully. I got mine (5) yrs ago locally from a family estate sale & it only had (1) hr of use & has electric start as the 'ol timer didn't have the strength for the pull cord start. I also have an identical one in the basement to power my home in case of outage that keeps all my appliances/furnace running in the winter or from summer storms. Here's a pic of my unit & the mods I did for my requirements.Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I use my Bobcat 250 to power all my tools and other welders.  It does fine powering the Passport on 110 and 220, the XMT 304, the MM175, the Hypertherm plasma, the TA185 tig, all my saws and grinders, drills, etc.  10KW 240v output is plenty of power for all but the biggest power using welding equipment out there.  You can usually find used Bobcats in good condition with low hours for $1500-2500.  My friend bought a Bobcat 225NT with like 50 hours on it for $1200 and runs his Diversion 165 and MM211 from it and is very happy with it.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I would buy an 8000 watt unit as a minimum but a 10000 watt is even better.Best to leave some wiggle room for the duty cycle and perhaps some lighting.ScottFab ManagerWelders360New guy.
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey jman,Doug(DSW) is correct regarding the output requirements with a genset that will be used for portable power. Most gensets list the surge wattage ratings instead of the running wattage ratings to make it look more enticing to the unwary buyer. I use a 7.5kw running(8.75kw surge) gen on my mobile unit that runs all my equipment. I modified mine with added receptacles for the different plugs my extensions & units have. My gen is a brushless unit that my neighbor checked with a very elaborate piece of power testing equipment & he indicated my gen has a very stable, clean output. I have never had any issues with powering any of my tools/welders/compressor. You can find good deals on Craigslist if you shop carefully. I got mine (5) yrs ago locally from a family estate sale & it only had (1) hr of use & has electric start as the 'ol timer didn't have the strength for the pull cord start. I also have an identical one in the basement to power my home in case of outage that keeps all my appliances/furnace running in the winter or from summer storms. Here's a pic of my unit & the mods I did for my requirements.Denny
Reply:I just realized something....Maybe I don't actually 'Need the Generator'....  I'm only doing small jobs and my PLASMA is 110/220, my M.M.211 will be 110/220, so perhaps I should 'sell' the Diversion 165 and go with the Diversion 180 which will ALSO do 110/220?  I might even consider a Miller Dynasty 200 if I could find a decent price on a used one...  I think the money may be better spent this way, instead of a Generator, but I could be wrong...  Thougts??Cheers,Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:Wow I'd feel quite naked without generator power on the truck.  There are many, many jobs I've done where 220v power was needed and none was available.  Even jobs where 110v power was not easily available.   Having power on the truck is essential for mobile welding if you want to be able to do any job in any location without limitation.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Remember all those machines run at a reduced level on 110v power. Your MM211 that Miller rates at 3/8", is only rated at 1/8" on 110v power. Thats the same with almost any multi voltage unit out there, the Dynasty included. There are times when being able to run on 110v is an advantage, but I wouldn't bank on doing all mobile jobs strictly on 110v power, especially if you want to do alum. I really think you'd be crippleing yourself planning to run on 110v and not having a 220v capable generator available..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I guess it all depends on what you consider "mobile".  Most of my "mobile" work is done at farm places where you're alright as long as you bring enough cord.  Very few of my "mobile" jobs require a generator.  Those are usually out in the middle of a field somewhere and I am using DC stick.  For those, I have my maxstar and 5500 watt generator.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmI guess it all depends on what you consider "mobile".  Most of my "mobile" work is done at farm places where you're alright as long as you bring enough cord.  Very few of my "mobile" jobs require a generator.  Those are usually out in the middle of a field somewhere and I am using DC stick.  For those, I have my maxstar and 5500 watt generator.
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=41121My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by Boostinjdmhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=41121
Reply:BTW, where does one find a NEMA 6-50p to "Quick-Lock adapter found on the Generators we've been discussing?I've been looking all OVER for them and can''t seem to find one....  I guess the adapter would have to be 6-50R on the one end in order to accomodate the 6-50p on the welder side and then to a Male 'Quick Lock' end that will plug into the generator.  Would that end be a L14-30P (male) Plug?Cheers,Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:Making your own adapter is easy enough.  I've made plenty of them with short sections of SO cord and plugs and receptacles from Home Depot and Lowes.Yes, if I remember right, my Generac portable genny uses an L14-30 twist lock receptacle for the 120/240 combo outlet and yes you would need a 6-50R receptacle to plug in the 6-50 MVP plug on most Miller 120/240 dual voltage machines.If you really want to go mobile, think about spending some more coin on the Millermatic Passport instead of the 211.  The Passport is much lighter and easier to port around, especially if you have to lift it up high on top of something or carry it up a ladder or carry it a ways away from the truck.  I use my Passport all the time and I tell ya, I'm sure glad I don't have to carry around that much heavier 211 that my friend uses on his truck, or my MM175 (same size as 211 and a tad lighter) that I used to use before I got the Passport.  The 211 is a great semi-portable home/road mig, but the Passport is much better suited to  real full time mobile use in the field.The Passport comes in a very tough case too that can be thrown around, dropped, laid in the dirt, etc without hurting it.  My friend dropped his Passport about 8 or feet off a scaffold onto a concrete slab on a construction job we were welding on.  It free fell and landed with a huge 'thud' that I heard from across the building.   I went over, picked it up, handed it up to him on the scaffold and he went on welding and the machine worked just as if nothing had happened, with no damage at all to the machine.  Try that with a heavier, metal cased machine.   Year and half later, he's still welding with that same Passport with no problems.  The Passport is also quite energy efficient and can to alot of welding on 110v power.  It is the most powerful 110v mig out there.  It doesn't have the top end on 220v power that the 211 has, but if you get a welding generator like a Bobcat, Trailblazer, Ranger, BlueStar, Wildcat, etc, you will have DC stick welding capability right from your generator for the thicker stuff.Think about what those of us who are welding for a living daily in the field are using, look at my sig and others here who are mobile rig guys.  We've already figured out what works best for our needs and most mobile guys have a similar set of equipment needs, dependent on what your main line of work is.  Most of us are using a similar level of equipment because we know it gets the job done with little hassle and limitation.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Making your own adapter is easy enough.  I've made plenty of them with short sections of SO cord and plugs and receptacles from Home Depot and Lowes.Yes, if I remember right, my Generac portable genny uses an L14-30 twist lock receptacle for the 120/240 combo outlet and yes you would need a 6-50R receptacle to plug in the 6-50 MVP plug on most Miller 120/240 dual voltage machines.If you really want to go mobile, think about spending some more coin on the Millermatic Passport instead of the 211.  The Passport is much lighter and easier to port around, especially if you have to lift it up high on top of something or carry it up a ladder or carry it a ways away from the truck.  I use my Passport all the time and I tell ya, I'm sure glad I don't have to carry around that much heavier 211 that my friend uses on his truck, or my MM175 (same size as 211 and a tad lighter) that I used to use before I got the Passport.  The 211 is a great semi-portable home/road mig, but the Passport is much better suited to  real full time mobile use in the field.The Passport comes in a very tough case too that can be thrown around, dropped, laid in the dirt, etc without hurting it.  My friend dropped his Passport about 8 or feet off a scaffold onto a concrete slab on a construction job we were welding on.  It free fell and landed with a huge 'thud' that I heard from across the building.   I went over, picked it up, handed it up to him on the scaffold and he went on welding and the machine worked just as if nothing had happened, with no damage at all to the machine.  Try that with a heavier, metal cased machine.   Year and half later, he's still welding with that same Passport with no problems.  The Passport is also quite energy efficient and can to alot of welding on 110v power.  It is the most powerful 110v mig out there.  It doesn't have the top end on 220v power that the 211 has, but if you get a welding generator like a Bobcat, Trailblazer, Ranger, BlueStar, Wildcat, etc, you will have DC stick welding capability right from your generator for the thicker stuff.Think about what those of us who are welding for a living daily in the field are using, look at my sig and others here who are mobile rig guys.  We've already figured out what works best for our needs and most mobile guys have a similar set of equipment needs, dependent on what your main line of work is.  Most of us are using a similar level of equipment because we know it gets the job done with little hassle and limitation.
Reply:Blue Star 185 or Wildcat 200 on a lease.