Advice Desparately Needed

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This will probably be a long one, hope I don't bore you with mundane questions.  One of the first things I need to fix is my 5' X 8' trailer.  I have axcess to the standard 220v Lincoln stick welder, but using it on mild steel like Unistrut or Superstrut and the expanded metal floor resulted in the rods either sticking or burning holes.  It's my understanding, maybe incorrectly, that Mig welders are a little more forgiving with respect to a person's talent.  So I looking at buying a used 120v Mig welder off of my local Craig's List whenever they become available.  I've narrowed it down to either a Lincoln 140 HD or a Hobart 125.  Stated thicknesses using shielded wire are I believe, 1/4" and 3/16", respectively, in a single pass.  I think either would fit my needs with the type of metal I'd be working with.  And it's my understanding that I could always run a second bead if needed to complete the weld.  I'm not looking for speed just strenght of weld.  They say flux core wire leaves a rougher finish, but beauty is not a concern, just wether or not a second pass would bond with the first.Now with that said, my question is this:Is there any pros or cons to either unit?  I need opinions.Thanks
Reply:if you want to learn to weld, you have the stick machine. learn the basics and practice with occasional input from a mentor. you cant buy this skill, and the little mig machine can only fool you..they dont forgive, theya re just a machine,  you have to be the operator..
Reply:I recommend that you practice on scrap steel that is similar to the trailer - don't attack the trailer until you can reliably repeat a good weld on practice pieces.Scrap can be had cheap from the local junkyard, dump or even by paying a visit to a local steel distributor and asking for cutoffs.  When I got started I just told them that I am a new welder and that I needed some steel to practice on - they offered to give me as much as I could carry!It is really frustrating to further damage something like a trailer when using it to learn a technique.  For any situation I am not familiar with (which is most) I scrounge similar scraps and mock up the layout to make sure I can get it right BEFORE I torch the stuff I need to keep.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:Thanks for replying.  I had planned on alot of practice before I did any real projects.  Both with the stick and Mig welders.
Reply:I would trust the lincoln tombstone long before I'd trust the 110v mig welder.I agree with others, practice, practice, practice.  Weld lots of scrap and then tear it apart with a vice and a sledge.  Try doing joints like you need to do on your trailer, and in the same positions.  It does take time and practice to get good at stick welding, but it's a skill you'll need to do the sort of work you want.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:"It's my understanding, maybe incorrectly, that Mig welders are a little more forgiving with respect to a person's talent." Yes they are more forgiving but still do not make up for lack of skill.  Developings skills takes time and quality practice spent under the hood.  I take pride in going the stick route when learning to weld, I figured that trying to master a more difficult process of welding vs going the mig route was more of my style.  If you go mig see if you can find a 220v machine then only your skill development will be your sticking point.Last edited by Jay O; 08-30-2010 at 01:47 PM.Reason: hit wrong button
Reply:I would trust the lincoln tombstone long before I'd trust the 110v mig welder.
Reply:What rods (number and size), and how many amps were you using when you were having the problems?When I put a welding cart together a while back, the expanded metal on the bottom was a challenge, it was very easy to melt since there isn't much metal there.  I went from 6011's to 7014's and found it much easier to tack the exp. metal to the square tubing without destroying the material.
Reply:Originally Posted by AndyAI would trust the lincoln tombstone long before I'd trust the 110v mig welder.
Reply:Well, I just got an email reply from the guy who has got the gently used (4 times he said) Hobart 125A 110v Mig Welder fo sale.  He originally wanted $300 for it, but now will go down to $225 after I pointed out you can buy that particular model new for $350 with free shipping.  Is this worth it, would it have a place along side the stick welder?  Or would I just be wasting money, which is tight right now.Another Mig welder showed up on Craig's List in my area, also.  It's a Clarke 130A 110v welder with cart and cylinder with 1000psig of mix in it for $300.  Would this be a better buy maybe if I could get him to knock a little off?As I said, I'm not H@ll bent on buying a Mig, I just want to be able to work on lighter steels like my trailer is made of.  If that means alot of practice with the stick, then so be it.  That's money I've saved.  I guess I truely don't understand the niches for each type of machine.And lastly, I'm not going to rush out and buy the Mig after soliciting you advice and you all so graciously educating me.  That would be like I don't value your advice and experience.  I do.  I'll wait till I hear your replies and see if I really need one.Thanks all.
Reply:If it were me and I had the same amount of money to spend on either a 110v feeder or a 220v stick machine such as the tombstone I'd get the tombstone hands down. The trailer isn't really light as such, when you get into the gauges now that's light and that's the place for a small wirefeed machine. It's just a matter of practice getting your technique down and as others had said lots of practice....Mike
Reply:Most small 110v migs will do 1/8" under almost perfect conditions. I know Miller will list thier MM140 aas doing 3/16" with FC wire, but honestly thats pushing it. I'm betting the 140 Lincoln is the same. The Hobart at 125 amps will do a bit less because of the lower max amps. Read a few of the attached threads linked on the sticky's on Welding questions for noobies and the 110v mig threads in the General Welding Questions section.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=20883http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43760I'd avoid the Clarke mig as Clarke is no longer in business and parts down the line will be an issue.Small migs have thier place. If you want to weld steel 1/8" and less, thats what they are good for. If you want a mig that can weld a bit thicker, then you need to start looking at the 220v migs that will do thin steel as well as thicker steel. Do a search on the Miller MM211. Lots of guys have gotten that machine and are very happy. It will run on both 110v or 220v power. On 110v it will do up to 1/8" like most other 140 amp class 110v migs, on 220v it will weld up to 3.8" like the 220v 200 amp migs.Good luck..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:"I wasn't trying to get by without putting something into it, I just thought the Mig would do a better job on light things like the Super Strut and expanded metal. "you go mig see if you can find a 220v machine then only your skill development will be your sticking point." Why do yo say that? Just because of your range of materials?"With mig the range in power goes hand in hand with the range of thickness in materials. If you purchase a 110v unit and are building things from 1/4" material, running multiple passes is not going to help any since the heat output on the machine is limited.  The bigger the mass of your project the more heat input is required to get a proper weld, so a 220v machine will cover you better if you plan on entering into welding as a serious hobby.  The one thing to remember is that a mig weld can be decieving, look good on the surface but you don't know what is underneath.Now a stick machine is a different creature.  For example I have a inverter that puts out 160 amps @ 40% duty cycle and in some ways the machine has unlimited thickness welding ability. The thickest steel I welded at home was 1 3/8" thick plate for practicing vert up when I was going to school.  I've also been able to weld exhaust pipe with 3/32" 6010 without burning throught. With stick there are no good looking bad welds, if the weld looks good then it is and if it looks bad then it is.
Reply:Originally Posted by djgWhy do you prefer stick to Mig welding?  Or is it just the 110v vs 220v?
Reply:I'm not familiar w/ super strut, but if it's galvanized the zinc will pose lots of problems when stick welding.                                       MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Thanks immensely to all who have responded to my questions.  Too many of you to address individually right now, but thanks just the same.  You've really helped me with my dilemma and gave me a bit of an education (which I needed) in the process.The general consensus from what I'm hearing is that 110v migs are good for1/8" thick steel or less.  And what you've told me about the strength of the weld vs. appearance between the two types of machines is important.  Appearance is a good diagnostic for weld strength for the stick but not necessarily for the mig.  I'm beefing up my little trailer for the winter firewood season, and since I tend to overload it, strength is important.So I'm going to heed all of your advice and pass on any 110v mig welders.  The class I took many years ago was designed around getting those into the field so they could get jobs at the local steel mill.  All we worked on was 1/4" steel with 6010 rods for root pass and 7012(?) rods for final pass.  I think I get my Dad's Lincoln stick welder out and practice with various rods.  So I guess you haven't heard the last of me.  I've got a lot to learn about various rods and such.  Lastly, the B-Line Strut, UniStrut or SuperStrut that I use is NOT the galvanized material.  I remembered from class, that can be difficult as well as some toxicity issues.  The stuff I use is painted green and can be cleaned up to bare metal with an angle grinder and a wire brush.Thanks againP.S.  JoshD:  Nice buck in your avatar.  What county did you harvest it in?  Just curious.Last edited by djg; 08-30-2010 at 11:26 PM.
Reply:I think any person that wants to learn welding should master stick first Grab some 6011 and go to it. 6011 very easy to weld with good penetration. Than try 6013 after that Than go to 7018. Than Mig. You will get much better understanding with stick to be past on to mig.                   Vernon
Reply:I forgot to mention, I'll be working with 1"x1" x 1/8" (max) square tubing and the like to build things like duck carts and blinds.  After much practice and the right rod, can this be done on the Lincoln stick welder mentioned above.Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by djgI forgot to mention, I'll be working with 1"x1" x 1/8" (max) square tubing and the like to build things like duck carts and blinds.  After much practice and the right rod, can this be done on the Lincoln stick welder mentioned above.Thanks
Reply:Most of that light tubing and 5x8 trailers are more likely to be 14 ga rather than thicker metal. This is one thing that GOOD 120 volt mig/flux core welders do well.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:As stated, I'm going to dig out the stick welder and practice a bit.  What I need now is a rod selection chart, type vs. diameter vs. material thickness.  I'm sure it has been asked before so if you would just point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.  I did a quick search, but didn't find anything.  There's so much good information out there on this site, it would take me a long time to find.  I do plan on reading the old threads, it's a good education, but I want to get started now.Two more things.  You've convinced me to try the stick first and I am NOT going out and buying a MIG right now.  Don't you hate it when someone asks for your advice and then does the direct opposite.  I'm not like that, but your comment about Clarke welders caught my eye.  I was in the local farm store recently, and they still were carrying Clarke welders.  When did they stop production?And lastly, if and when the time comes, I will again be taking your advice and get a 220v MIG unit.  It's been tough to resist the urge after seeing some of those prices for NIB units on ebay.  How can they sell them that much cheaper than other places?I've done a little flat work and fillet welds during that course I took years ago.  Wish me luck on the thinner metals.  Hope it's like riding a bike?Thanks
Reply:For doing expanded metal I have always used a 3/32 6011 rod . It is easy to start and stop and it will not burn through as easy. I have a hobart 210 mig and I just perfer to stick weld expanded metal just for the simple fact that it is easier.
Reply:In my opinion, if you learn to stick weld first, you will be a much better weldor when you pick up a wire feed. I use 1/16" 6013 for really thin stuff, and if possible run it vertical down.
Reply:Here is a link ( if I can make it work) to a thread about stick welding thin stuff.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=22045
Reply:All the advice here is a valid.  I'm a welding inspector.  Stick welding is inherently stronger than wire welding due to the width of the weld pool.  Get some scrap metal that simulates the metal of your trailer, and practice running passes one at a time.  Dont weave, just lay single stringers down (again, weaving weakens the weld due to increased width).  If your rod is sticking, it could be poor technique or too low of amperage.  Higher amperage helps you strike an arc.  Of course the downside is that you can burn through thin material.  You need to find a happy medium.The worst type of structural weld can be produced by a mig welder.  Its called Short Arc or Short Circuiting.  Its from low current/low amps.  It will make a pretty weld, but have tons of lack of fusion.  Might as well just use duct tape.http://www.hobartwelders.com/product...ectrode-chart/
Reply:Originally Posted by GmmandanFor doing expanded metal I have always used a 3/32 6011 rod . It is easy to start and stop and it will not burn through as easy. I have a hobart 210 mig and I just perfer to stick weld expanded metal just for the simple fact that it is easier.