GMAW penetration pull or push

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hey all,the question has come up as to which gives greater peneteration, if any difference. pulling the gun or pushing??why?please bring the Tech.cheers,Serg
Reply:Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:End threadYou really cant explain it any better than that.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:thanks CEP,looking at those pics it seems the top middle (perpendicular) would be the best balance between depth and width....now I know each situation is different, ie type of joint, material thickness etc etc but is one better than the other?why do we vertical up or push up on structural stuff???
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88End threadYou really cant explain it any better than that.
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100so its that black and white...ALWAYS PULL WELD....maybe not
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100why do we vertical up or push up on structural stuff???
Reply:apart from vertical up, can you give me some examples where I would use one over the other....starting to worry that im not doing it right. I mostly push weld with a sight angle. I am aware of what happens when you use to much lay back angle on the push.....weld just sits on toplooks like ill start trying to weld more perpendicular
Reply:I think your are worring to much about having to push/pull because either one can still be done incorrectly.  If you work on making sure your weld parameters along with joint prep are correct that will help in achieving the penetration/fusion your looking for.  Testing yourself by doing some destrutive test on your welds will show you what you are doing wrong better then anything else you can do.
Reply:Originally Posted by husq2100thanks CEP,looking at those pics it seems the top middle (perpendicular) would be the best balance between depth and width....now I know each situation is different, ie type of joint, material thickness etc etc but is one better than the other?why do we vertical up or push up on structural stuff???
Reply:thanks guys,i have done VERY LITTLE vertical welds, I always try and get them in easier postions as I'm not confident in my ability/knowledge.I have done a basic introductry course in GMAW at night school. but we only covered the basics and were told at this stage to only push weld, which I was happy with becuase I thought it good not to learn too much too quick....cheers,Serg
Reply:Serg,Pulling the bead (in the flat position) will give greater penetration.  Pushing will give a flatter bead profile.  Both have their place.  I use a push more than a pull.For flux-core, the old addage "Where there's slag, you drag" applies.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Well it's been very thoroughly covered here by now.  All I can add is just think about what you want the puddle to do and use the method that will accomplish the goal.  If you're welding on sheetmetal, you're almost automaticaly going to be pulling.  If still burning through, turn the metal so you can weld it veritcal down if possible, as there is your least heat input into the metal and best chance of not burning through.  If you're doing thicker metal, it depends on your joint prep and heat/wire settings as to best gun angle to get it to do what you want it to (puddle width and depth).   Vertical up is the most heat input into the metal and best chance of complete penetration and best fusion.  It is also the most difficult direction to learn to do properly.  Hold the toes and zip across the middle, moving up in small increments.As Sundown says, where there is slag, drag.  Use a slight downward angle on your vertical ups with fluxcore.   You're building a shelf as you go up, laying the new metal on the previously laid cooling metal.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op