95% argon... 5%CO2 to %5O2 ???

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Hi Guy's,I have a HH210 which I can spray transfer with 023 wire. I'm using 5%CO2, but I'm marginal on the power. Will switching to 5% O2 give make it a bit easier to get into spray mode.Thanks,Pete O
Reply:What application causes you to use spray-arc, and .023 wire? I have not used 5 %  (Two part gas) on either of those gases, but only 2 % with them. (HH-210 too) This would be a guess on those parameters. Probably minor difference in the transition to spray between gases, but it would probably would favor O2 just a tiny bit. Biggest difference I can see heading your way, is a super wet puddle with 5% O2 mix.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:[QUOTE=Brand X;2296601]What application causes you to use spray-arc, and .023 wire? QUOTE]I was wondering the same.  Isn't .023" wire small for spray?My book lists spray arc transfer starting at 1/8" steel using .035" wire, 95% Argon and 5% Oxygen.However, I have only used spray arc for Aluminum with 100% Argon.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:[quote=MinnesotaDave;2296671] Originally Posted by Brand XWhat application causes you to use spray-arc, and .023 wire? QUOTE]I was wondering the same.  Isn't .023" wire small for spray?My book lists spray arc transfer starting at 1/8" steel using .035" wire, 95% Argon and 5% Oxygen.However, I have only used spray arc for Aluminum with 100% Argon.Dave J.
Reply:I really see no benefit in spray arc with an .023 wire. You can't be getting much more than 120 amps out the unit, if that. Tap #7 with an .030 wire and C-25 is going to give you way more arc energy than your going to be able to produce in spray arc mode with an .023 wire.If you're wanting to use spray transfer, the HH 210 is the wrong unit for you. An Ironman 230 set up with an .030 or .035 wire and 98/2 oxy is the only legitimate spray arc unit in Hobart's line up. My 230 actually sprays an .030 wire real well with 90/10CO². However, my input voltage is consistently around 245 VAC. Since 98/2 oxy requires less voltage and amperage to spray then 90/10, I going to stick with a recommendation 98/2 oxy for the Ironman 230I've never ran 95/5 oxy. However the oxygen mixes transition over to spray at lower voltage and amperage then the CO² mixes. I've ran quite a bit of 98/2 oxy spray , and it has a fairly wet fluid puddle. Based on my experience with 98/2 and what I've read about 95/5 oxy, I don't think I'd like the 5% oxy for spray, because I am suspecting the puddle would be to fluid for my taste.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:If you want to try any different gases, I would look for a Tri-mix  of those three gases. I  seen /used a couple of them way back when. I also used a bit different Mix then this one below, It was mixed  a place in Portland..http://www.praxair.com/praxair.nsf/2...a!OpenDocumentEsab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:[quote=fps;2296781] Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHi Dave,From the info I've gotten the smaller the wire, the less amount of power to spray. so far, that seems to be true for me. I can't spray .030, but I can spray .023. With the HH210 I'm right on the borderline for power. Spraying with the .023 let's me weld the really small stuff (short circuit) and then weld the heavier stuff without changing wire size. Also, spraying the smaller wire really deposits well and deep without much worry about putting a hole in the work.Again, I'm new at this and I'm using the machine to repair my landscape equipment.Thanks,Pete
Reply:Originally Posted by DanI really see no benefit in spray arc with an .023 wire. You can't be getting much more than 120 amps out the unit, if that. Tap #7 with an .030 wire and C-25 is going to give you way more arc energy than your going to be able to produce in spray arc mode with an .023 wire
Reply:Originally Posted by fpsI'm all ears . Remember as a newbie, I'm learning. Frankly, it's just a hoot to watch and see the spray transfer. It'll wear off!!However, I really am beginning to wonder if I can lay down a SC weld (somewhere) as smooth as spray, with "almost" no spatter, as you say, why bother!!!And yes, please add some positive criticism.Thanks,Pete
Reply:Another beautiful example of a text book mig weld there Dan..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DanPete,Is that  suppose to be one of your spray transfer welds? When ever possible, you should use a push travel for spray. The bead profile (T - joint)  should be flat to slightly convex..
Reply:If there's slag, then drag.  In general, if the welding process being used produces slag, then use a "drag" (aka "backhand") technique.If there is no slag, then generally you use a "push" (aka "forehand") technique.Solid wire is a no-slag process, so generally you would use a "push" technique.0.023/0.025 solid wire can be run in spray mode transfer (~23-25 volts and 400-600 ipm WFS), but no matter what, you are only going to be able to push about 100-125 amps through the wire.100-125 amps with wire is not a whole bunch of amps/heat to weld 'thick' metal with.Run some 0.030 solid wire in spray mode at ~ 180 amps (25 volts and 520 ipm WFS), and you are putting out much more heat into your weld.  But you are not really going to be able to do those parameters with a HH210 machine.Spray (on steel) usually needs the 250-class machines to get the right voltage-amperage parameters to give you spray transfer.Yes, a smaller diameter wire needs less power (voltage and amperage) to get into spray mode transfer than a larger size wire.  But you still need to have enough power in the weld (no matter if you are trying to do short-circuit transfer or spray transfer) in order to fuse the weld bead properly into the parent material and get 'adequate' penetration.Excess spatter?  General causes:- WFS too high (for the voltage being used), turn it down- voltage too high (for the WFS being used), turn it down- stickout too long, reduce it- shielding gas problem, watch out for drafts or too high/low gas flow rate (also can cause porosity problems)- dirty workpiece (grease, oil, rust, paint, etc), clean the workpiece before welding- dirty (or 'crappy') wire, use clean and 'good' wire  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by fpsDan,Thank for the critiquing. It's what I'm looking for. The Weld I did was pull with .030, c25 gas, no cleanup or jelly and short circuit. And yes, I'm looking for a flatter weld. What should I be doing??? More or less wire speed results in more spatter, poorer sound and less smooth arc.Tell me what to doPete
Reply:Request for Consult: About to swap our my 1st 155CF of C25, and planning to score a 90/10 mix for MIG'n. Baseline running 0.030 wire in short-circuit mode for all welding via a MM175 (240vac).   Understand that the 90/10 will reduce spatter while still providing ample penetration on 1/8" mild steel.......BUT, will the 90/10 provide the capability, albeit reduced fusion/penetration, to spray transfer with, say, 0.023/0.030 wire??  Above input from Dan/Dave, et al tells me that spray transferring w/ 0.035 wire needs a higher amperage machine (eg. MM252).Motivation for the. 90/10 is primarily for reduced spatter & potential for spray transfer while MIGn.  Having the ability for ST is lagnaippe to me.Thanks in advance for your input/comment.  "For me, the action is the juice."Last edited by ManoKai; 04-02-2013 at 12:30 AM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Checked with my LWS yesterday.  No dice on 90/10 for a 155CF.  Minimum fill size is an 80CF, and a 350CF on the other end of the spectrum.  Sticking w/ C25 for awhile.  All good."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:I think 90/10 on your machine will cause more spatter. Not on the very low-end, but up higher. It will want to stay in the short-arc longer with C-25, then trying to break into a globular or spray arc using C-10. C-25 is perfect for your machine. Change wire brands if you want to see improvement in spatter. Sometimes it makes a pretty big difference..Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Your MM 175 isn't going to offer near enough voltage to produce spray transfer with 90/10.Also understand, the CO² in the shielding gas mix aids weld puddle wet out, as you reduce the Co² content weld puddle wet out decreases. In my experience compared to C25, in short arc mode, C10 likes to produce worm like ropey beads. C25 arc quality is better too.The compact Miller units, like your 175, are designed to produce a crisp arc. In short circuit transfer as you increase the voltage, this style of arc can range from challenging to impossible to produce light spatter with. In my experience, the compact Miller units are real finicky about the brand of wire they like to run best with. At one point I had at least a dozen different rolls (brands) of wire. The Hobart Handler 187 that I had at the time ran all the rolls well, meaning light spatter and acceptable puddle wet out. The MM 180 that I was running at the time too, only had a couple rolls that it ran well, and with most of the others it was challenging to get the spatter level downESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:@ BrandX and Dan - thanks for the insight and technical description.  Very helpful.  Will contjnue ro use C25 w/ the MM175.  Jammed a new 11lb roll of 0.030 (ESAB) wire today.  Looking forward to seeing how she runs.Finalizing the welds to the lower legs of the Fabrication n Welding Table tomorrow.  Shaka!Last edited by ManoKai; 04-03-2013 at 09:56 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi