question for the oldtimers...

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I just noticed that my tig machine has an led panel that doesnt light up. Machine works fine but I dont know what it is supposed to read and have no manual of course (not available anywhere I have looked). What is it? thanks Steve ps dont feel like taking the covers off as the water cooler lives on top and well wouldnt know what I was looking at anyway....Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:What you are looking at is the signwave just like you would see in an ociliscope.It tells you about the balance of pentration and cleaning action when you are  doing AC welding. Squarewave technology.Nothing old time about sign waves. Very, very Nice machine !  Don't forget to have crater fill ON when welding aluminum.High freq set to continous.Good luck and keep asking good questions.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 09-21-2008 at 11:20 AM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:When you switch to AC the window should illuminate to a brighter value.That HIGH / LOW range switch should be st to LOW for most of what you do.A WP-20 torch is only rated for about 150 amps anyway.1/4 inch plate at about 125 amps.Don't go poking around inside of the machine because touching a capacitor could get you killed.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 09-21-2008 at 11:17 AM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Thanks, it is old time in the sense that the machine is an 80's vintage and totally unsupported by anyone as far as I know, even ArcProducts in San Diego doesnt have anything for it. I have been using it on the high setting at about 35 or 40 on the dial and using the pedal to control the torch. Did some al which is what this picture reflects (I think as it is an old photo) AC on continuous of course. Dont remember the crater control setting, I am still experimenting with the settings. Lotso stuff to mess with here. One problem of course is it is real hard to weld and turn around quick enough to see the panel  I did have the machine apart when I first got it to blow it down and inspect interior, pretty clean. Came from boeing in Seattle. Thaniks again for the info, Steve ps I thought the wp20 when water cooled was 250a....Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Speaking of capacitors, remember when James Bond (I think) wired a television set to the front door mat and the door knob? Bunch of meth junkies around my part of the world that in my fantasies.... never mind.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Maybe it's just me but I can see a waveform on that display?? Or is it just a ghost?
Reply:I think it is a ghost. Will fire up the machine and switch to ac and see what happens.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:SINE waves, not SIGN waves.    Sounds the same, means something very different.
Reply:Not familiar with this machine so may be very wrong but i doubt it's connected to AC. A visual representation of the AC output serves no use i can think of, the waveform is wrong anywayI suspect it's connected to pulse- would provide 'at a glance' visualization of pulse settings (peak, background and Hz). Still don't see the point thoughFWIW, generally 'WP20' torches are rated at 250A DCEN
Reply:Why do you need continous high frequency with a squarewave machine?Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Sets the balance control operative, I think.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HWhy do you need continous high frequency with a squarewave machine?
Reply:Originally Posted by jetenginedoctorSINE waves, not SIGN waves.    Sounds the same, means something very different.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HWhy do you need continous high frequency with a squarewave machine?
Reply:You do NOT need high frequency on a true square wave machine other than for non contact arc starting. Because a square have does not have a period of time in which the power is ramping up/down then there is no need for the high frequency to stabilize the arc. High frequency is needed on machines in which the output is a sine wave. The need for HF is related to the output wave and not the material. HF is often referred to as High Frequency Stabilization since its purpose is to stabilize the arc as it passes through that short time of no power.HF can cause problems around some equipment so the square wave machines eliminated that.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomOnly on AC  -aluminum. the aluminum needs the continous cleaning action or the oxides will build up on the surface and no matter how much heat you put in, it will not penetrate those oxides.
Reply:Originally Posted by gaustinYou do NOT need high frequency on a true square wave machine other than for non contact arc starting. Because a square have does not have a period of time in which the power is ramping up/down then there is no need for the high frequency to stabilize the arc. High frequency is needed on machines in which the output is a sine wave. The need for HF is related to the output wave and not the material. HF is often referred to as High Frequency Stabilization since its purpose is to stabilize the arc as it passes through that short time of no power.HF can cause problems around some equipment so the square wave machines eliminated that.
Reply:Perhaps it comes on when pulse is turned on?David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Sure would like to have the manual for this machine. Anybody?So then is this machine square wave on AC and sine wave on DC? And how would I tell the difference? Inquiring minds would like to know. It is a transformer of  course, mighty heavy I might add....Last edited by sunline; 09-22-2008 at 11:33 AM.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:There's no wave at all on DC, just a constant, flat current in one direction.David, that makes some sense, I didn't think of that.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:There's no wave at all on DC, just a constant, flat current in one direction.
Reply:Sure would like to have the manual for this machine. Anybody?............................................................................................  ..................................................  ..................................Contact the Manufacturer.It is NOT that difficult .[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Took a look at the machine powered up; nothing on any setting. Put bright flashlight on the panel and it shows a square wave shape. Hmmmm, so what combo of settings initiates square wave?Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy HodgesSure would like to have the manual for this machine. Anybody?............................................................................................  ..................................................  ..................................Contact the Manufacturer.It is NOT that difficult .
Reply:So much misinformation.WOWThat information from Joe H is wrong. Sorry Joe.Below:FROM the WEB.*What is Square Wave? Square Wave refers to the shape of the voltage cycle in a welding arc. In an AC wave, a typical sinusoidal or sine wave, changes the voltage from positive to negative gradually, although many times a second. This means the voltage will not be consistent and at times will actually go through zero. Square Wave, on the other hand, changes the voltage from positive to negative almost instantly, making for a much smoother and more stable welding arc. This is particularly important when welding aluminum and when considering aspects like cleaning and penetrating actionHigh frequency is selected to be on START when initiating the arc for DC, or CONTINOUS when welding aluminum. The machines that DO NOT have high frequency are scratch start or lift arc machines.You really need the book for the welding machine and you could take a beginning welding class at a junior college to get a lot of this information cleared up. It is too bad tuition has gotton so expensive.AIRCO went out of business. But you can double check online. They were selling machines in welding stores for a couple years then they were gone.That is why people did not buy many machines because AIRCO did not stay around long enough and customers lost faith.The pulse feature WILL work on DC.Pulse is good when you have the machine hooked up to a welding positioner ot turntable.You can use pulse but I would not use it untill you learn how to weld manually first.It can be a crutch.I would not worry too much about that sine wave in that window right now, just learn to weld and learn as much as you can about welding.You really need someone to teach you about welding and the use of your machine.I am going to say something that is not popular but ...FORUMS can have some very good information and some very bad information.So be careful.I have made mistakes too, but I research my awnswers. I am not an electronics person so I do not know all about sine waves. I can tell you that squarewave technology was an advancement in welding machines.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 09-22-2008 at 01:22 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welderGuess I should just go all the way with this.The spot time dials.They are used when you are spot welding but not in the traditional sense.Not like with a real spot welder. These are used when welding thin metals and on spot welds, melt thru's, or plug welds where no filler is used. The time length and of the time the arc is initiated and terminated in seconds. Time on, then the time off before the next weld. Like a strip of metal being passed under a TIG torch. The torch being held in a fixture.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Thanks Donald, I have searched the Inet high and low and not found a manual. Arc Products in San Diego supports some Airco machines but not this one.They had a copy of the manual but it was in there words illegible so no luck there. ESAB had nothing on the machine when I called them. I am self taught and have been able to weld with this machine my issues primarily are hand eye coordination. Unfortunatly no schools near here either as I am out in the country. Thanks on spot welder info, I have seen the places on panels of other machines where this stuff goes. I have not messed with this function at all and may never given its uses. I have made good AL welds high freq in continuous and MS in dcsp high freq start. Havent really played with the pulser; when I first got it was on and was pretty confused till I turned it off.Last edited by sunline; 09-22-2008 at 02:31 PM.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:Donald, just what wrong information did I give exactly?True squarewave machines do not need continous high frequency when welding with AC. Like you just stated, the polarity changes instantly. The reason you need HF with non-squarewave machines is that you lose the arc when the current drops off to 0 as the polarity changes. This does not happen with squarewave, true squarewave does not need arc stabilization via HF. HF has nothing to do with cleaning, that comes from the electrode positive part of the cycle. I wish some others would chime in here. Plenty of us here weld aluminum with AC every day without HF.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Since his welder is old, and heavy, it's a transformer. X-formers do not have true square wave. So Sunline has to use HF continuous on AC for alum. and HF start on DC. Like he said at the bottom post 27.Miller has been calling their Sycncrowave a 'squarewave' since at least 1993, when I got mine. And I use HF continuous for alum and HF start on DC. Well, I do if I want a TIG arc.True squarewave is new, with inverters.So the difference is: transformer squarewave does not = true inverter squarewave.The Econotig has Built-in arc assist starter for DC TIG.And Built-in arc assist stabilizer for AC TIG.I have no idea if it's HF or not. My source is the 2008 Miller Catalog, page 17.Last edited by Craig in Denver; 09-22-2008 at 07:37 PM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Thanks Craig in Denver.I did not want to go into the whole thing about inverter welders being chopper inverters.They turn AC into rectified DC that mimics AC. I do not fully understand it.Like i said I am not well versed in electronics.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by sunlineSure would like to have the manual for this machine. Anybody?....
Reply:I"m sure !
Reply:Originally Posted by gaustinYou do NOT need high frequency on a true square wave machine other than for non contact arc starting. Because a square have does not have a period of time in which the power is ramping up/down then there is no need for the high frequency to stabilize the arc. High frequency is needed on machines in which the output is a sine wave. The need for HF is related to the output wave and not the material. HF is often referred to as High Frequency Stabilization since its purpose is to stabilize the arc as it passes through that short time of no power.HF can cause problems around some equipment so the square wave machines eliminated that.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joe HThere's no wave at all on DC, just a constant, flat current in one direction.David, that makes some sense, I didn't think of that.
Reply:Originally Posted by BillyA square wave still passes through zero, soo hf is needed.They have not eliminated problems around equipment.
Reply:A square wave is a combination of a very high frequency wave and DC.. so in theory, the wave form crossing from + voltage to - voltage happens so fast that the arc does not dissipate liek it would with say a 60 hz ac wave that takes 1/60th of a second to ramp down to zero  pass it and ramp  in the other direction...  In the audo world, reproducing a square wave with a speaker is a "holy grail" accomplishment that some hobbyists attempt to do with a combination of drivers.. very hig frequency tweeter for the vertical on/off ramp, and larger drivers for the sustained on or off flat spot in the wave.  I have never tigged, but I would imagine constant HF on a transformer unit would behave different than an inverter based true square wave as the HF is "added" into the wave form on the transformer unit as a higher voltage higher frequency "arc carrier" vs the square wave that has an integral high frequency component.  FWIW the diy tig welder builds I have seen use a cheap neon sign or TV flyback transformer as the HF source.. 10-30kv at maybe 1/20 an amp to maintain an arc, and then the actual high weld current travels over this arc to do the metal heating.