Slamming a Volkswagen Bug

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I figured I will come here and ask you guys about the idea this guy has given me.  A little back ground... when slamming a Super Beetle, there are some interference issues in the rear.... seen here!So my thought were to remove the bump stops, but I was told the bottoming out of the shock will eventually break the mounts...The spring plate issue is resolved by notching them which people do all the time. But then I had another option thrown into the ring...Cutting and raising the trailing arm which in theory seems like the best idea.  I would keep more of the suspension travel which would keep me from bottoming out so bad on bumps.Here are the pictures the guy gave me, so I am coming here to get your safety and professional opinions on this before I cut up my arms.And for those that are curious, here is the bug as it is sitting in my driveway, we are shooting to make it to a show mid november!
Reply:The only problem I see it doing like that ( raising control arm), is keeping the spindle alignment right.Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:looks good to me... maybe box them completely..  with the stock tubing being as thin as it is, the mod is probably stronger actually.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Cool, I sent the guy a message asking what thickness the metal was he is working with... you guys have any ideas?  I use a lincoln pro-mig 135 with a gas set-up.  So I cant go thicker than 3/16", but I want it to be strong!  I have been told I can use 1/4" if I use flux-core, but I don't want to push the limits of the welder.  I would rather use something a little thinner that is strong enough and have good welds.Also as for the alighment of the spindle, I am not sure how I could be 100% sure I have it perfect.  You have any ideas?
Reply:you welded that with a 110v welder? Hope you aren't driving it on the streets...
Reply:make a jig....  hard to tell what size material he usedLast edited by brucer; 08-28-2011 at 05:07 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by gsusmaniacCool, I sent the guy a message asking what thickness the metal was he is working with... you guys have any ideas?  I use a lincoln pro-mig 135 with a gas set-up.  So I cant go thicker than 3/16", but I want it to be strong!  I have been told I can use 1/4" if I use flux-core, but I don't want to push the limits of the welder.  I would rather use something a little thinner that is strong enough and have good welds.Also as for the alighment of the spindle, I am not sure how I could be 100% sure I have it perfect.  You have any ideas?
Reply:i agree with dsw.. i dont care for110v migs, even at 140 amp they seem small for any type of chassis work.. first thing i would do is have them media blasted and check the material for corrosion, when you cut the arm into also check the inside of the material for it rusting from the inside out.  i know the stock material is pretty much formed/stamped sheetmetal, its not very thick at all. you might make a jig for both sides and tack both together, then have someone with at least a 180amp machine or a tig welder weld them together for you..Last edited by brucer; 08-28-2011 at 05:41 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:BCTimberwolf...  Thank you for your concern but please read the thread before giving your opinions... DSW, I don't mind doing the cutting and tacking and then having a professional weld it up properly.  That is why I came here to a welding forum to ask and didn't continue with questions on the car forums.  They are not welders, they are car enthusiast and I wanted a professionals point of view!So if I were to have it welded properly by a pro, then there shouldn't be an issue with doing this?
Reply:Whoa there boss!!BCTimberwolf... Thank you for your concern but please read the thread before giving your opinions...Your post says nothing about having someone do it for you and you say "before I cut up my arms."  That leaves one to think that you will be doing the job yourself.I assumed the same myself after reading and rereading your post.[QUOTE=gsusmaniac;547323]I figured I will come here and ask you guys about the idea this guy has given me.  A little back ground... when slamming a Super Beetle, there are some interference issues in the rear.... seen here!So my thought were to remove the bump stops, but I was told the bottoming out of the shock will eventually break the mounts...The spring plate issue is resolved by notching them which people do all the time. But then I had another option thrown into the ring...Cutting and raising the trailing arm which in theory seems like the best idea.  I would keep more of the suspension travel which would keep me from bottoming out so bad on bumps.[*]Here are the pictures the guy gave me, so I am coming here to get your safety and professional opinions on this before I cut up my arms.And for those that are curious, here is the bug as it is sitting in my driveway, we are shooting to make it to a show mid november!Charlie
Reply:Nice work.We are on our way to being farmers! Our site is always under construction so check back often for updates.  http://www.philosophyfarmstyle.com/
Reply:Thanks for making my point 59halfstep. I was trying to be polite but apparently he aint a bright one. I assumed he would be driving it on the road but wanted to get my point across. Back to my original point, I hope to hell you aint gonna drive that thing on the road with other people's lives at risk for your shoddy workmanship
Reply:Originally Posted by 59halfstepWhoa there boss!!
Reply:I agree with DSW, especially about the prep.  I would do this type of job as a good welder myself, but I would not do it with your machine and skill sets. I would use a set of arms from a junk yard or other donor. If looks like they used1/4" plate as the bridge/riser, I would cut out a full 3/8" and use 3/8" plate, with 3/16" or  1/4" gussets.  As for alignment, I would create a fixture using the original uncut arm, and make provisions to elevate it to the desired height (all-thread, shims, etc.)Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:Take a look at the second pic! That casting is 3/4" -1" thick at the least. I realize that this was done by somebody else but... No prep at all. No grinding a bevel, no removal of rust nothing. This is not an idea I would follow. Expecting the welds (of unknown quality with just some of the defects pointed out by DSW) to hold the back half of the car (this is the half with the engine right? The heavy half) up with gussets and plates and no prep is asking for trouble. What would be the problem with removing the bump stops and fabbing up new ones while relocating the shock mounts. This would not only be easier and safer but should prevent any alignment issues as well."Liberalism is a mental disorder" Dr. Savage
Reply:Ok looked like a casting in the pic never worked on a VW to this extent. It looked like a torsion axle."Liberalism is a mental disorder" Dr. Savage
Reply:59halfstep and Timberwolf...  I am not an idiot, at no point was I rude, and personally I don't feel I said anything wrong.  I came here and stated what I was thinking of doing.  I told you all the tools I had, and I asked how you felt about it.  Timberwolf assumed I did the above photos without actually reading.  He looked at the pics and jumped the gun.  Not my fault.I asked if this was a safe procedure to do as stated in my first post.Here are the pictures the guy gave me, so I am coming here to get your safety and professional opinions on this before I cut up my armsI told you the welder I was using and came here looking for advice.  I was told to have someone do it and my welder isn't strong enough, so I am fine with that. At no point did I argue or state that I am the God of welding and can weld 1" steel with my 110 MIG.  I said I can cut the arms... i am more than capable of making straight cuts and tacking things together, you both have made assumptions against me and I don't appreciate it. When you speak to people, try not to treat them like idiots.  Yes some people are, I am not.  So thank you for your advice.  I appreciate it!
Reply:Now for the task at hand.  Yes the arms are hollow and somewhat thin.Tessdad- I can get hold of some arms off a junked car and that is a good Idea.  I may do that!  Thank you for the metal thickness ideas.  My dad was over to work on cars tonight and we talked about it.  He used to build race cars and own a machine shop before anyone jumps the gun on him.  He said the idea is good and he can help me make a jig to keep things lined up properly. Thank you guys for the help.  If anyone has any more ideas feel free to throw them out.  I am here for help and can take advice.
Reply:Well it's the right color, but you're going the wrong way... you gotta go UP!Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:haha... the only baha I would drive wouldn't get very far offroad!
Reply:Originally Posted by gsusmaniachaha... the only baha I would drive wouldn't get very far offroad!
Reply:you need to look at the volksrod with the I-beam front axle..  like this one. this ones cool too. Last edited by brucer; 08-28-2011 at 11:42 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by fwalz3Well it's the right color, but you're going the wrong way... you gotta go UP!
Reply:Hey gsus, good lookin project. I've been doing mods to old bugs since the early '70's. Cutting the arms and doing any mods has been done forever. You are good to go, we would do that all the time when building them for off road. The way they they are made from the factory anything you do to them is an improvement. The metal is soft and thin and easy to work with. We would cut them and put tubing inside to extend them to get more travel and height, never seen one fail!
Reply:Personally I wouldn't go any lower unless your bagging it otherwise that lone chunk of brick sitting in the middle of the road at 2am can ruin your drive home.  Looking at the two triangle pieces he welded in it looks like they are 1/8" thick and probably mild steel.  Nice bug by the way, I have an 01 jetta vr6 wagon 2.8 with a manual 5 speed and its black on black and grey.  Its all stock and if it hadn't of been for a need for a new trans/clutch/flywheel/timing chains/tensioners/crack pipe/radiator fan and something else it would have new wheels and tires and exhaust.Welding Supervisor Department of Corrections.