Which tungsten electrode is best for TIG AC on an inverter based machine?

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Hello,I have googled this idea about a thousand times, and searched the forum as many as well on this subject.  I don't know if I am just beating a dead horse on asking this question.Some people say 1.5 or 2% lanthanated is best, some say ceriated, some say thoriated, and once in a while I see mention of arctime.So, what do you think?  Is there really fact on this subject?  I've heard some folks say that this tungsten or that tungsten is really horrible for this sort of application and I get a bit confused on what to believe.  Right now, for me, it is either gather knowledge and perspective here or buy 10 packs of all of these types of tungstens and run them through.  I saw some where that 1.5% lanthanated would allow you to use 50% more amps with it compared to pure tungsten.  (source: http://www.thefabricator.com/article...ten-electrodes).Miller 330 a/bp water cooledI believe in gun control, I hold my gun with two hands.  If you want to know why, click here.Buy American or bye America.
Reply:Ive run thoriated, lanthanated and ceriated on an inverter machine.I had problems with splitting on AC with thoriated.Now i just run 1.5% lanth and 2% ceriated with not much difference.  In fact, because i sharpen at both ends, i now dont even know which im using, but i know i tossed all my thoriated in the bin.  I use them on both AC and DC.Do you have( thats not listed in your sig ) or are you getting an inverter machine?Last edited by LarryO; 10-08-2010 at 06:23 AM.
Reply:I use 2% thoriated on my TA185 inverter for both ac and dc.  It works okay.  It does split and spit a bit on ac.  I use 1/8" tung for just about everything.  The thicker size helps it not split and spit so much.  I only use the red because I have a whole tool box drawer chock full of it that I got for free from my old job.  It will be quite a few years before I use it all up.That said, it seems to me the consensus is lanthanated is much better than thoriated for ac with an inverter.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I went to 2% Lanth back when I had a transformer machine so that I did not have to keep track of which tungsten was which. I cut my 7 inch sticks in half and then sharpen both ends. It is a bit more wasteful this way but it works best for the work I do so I can leave a short or med back cap on all the time and get into places I would not be able to otherwise. -DanOwnerDW Metalworks LLCMiller Trailblazer 302Miller 8RC FeederMiller Passport PlusMiller Dynasty 200 DX W/Coolmate 1Hobart Handler 135Hypertherm PowerMAX 30Smith O/A Torch SetPlus much much more
Reply:Have you read this thread, it has some discussion on this subject.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=44935Based on experience with 2% Thoriated, I would happily use it, but if I was going to do alot of AC Aluminum I would go with 2% Lanthanated.
Reply:You've forgotten about zirconated tungsten.  Made just for AC.
Reply:Different welders will most likely function better with different electrodes.  I know ceriated works better than 2% thoriated on dynasty's ive used.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:I prefer ceriated because you can keep a nice sharp point on it.Go hot, or go home!
Reply:I've had great luck with rare earth tungstens with aluminum, don't see many talk about them though. they do ball up but work well for me I think
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserHave you read this thread, it has some discussion on this subject.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=44935Based on experience with 2% Thoriated, I would happily use it, but if I was going to do alot of AC Aluminum I would go with 2% Lanthanated.
Reply:I don’t do a whole lot of tig welding myself, so I can’t give personal preference or experience. But this video seems to have some good info in it. Oooops. I'm a dumb @ss. I just followed the link posted above and found this same vid in the other thread. My bad.Last edited by 4on12; 10-09-2010 at 03:55 AM.Will
Reply:Dont do much ac welding but I do a lot of starts and stops on stainless tubing. Lanthanated has the best start charteristics of the different types. I get more starts from lanthanated before resharpening. Ceriated and thoriated seem to frost over and the hf just bounces in the cup until I resharpen. Once welding they all seem to work about the same.To identify which tung I am using I will grind 1, 2 or 3 small grind marks in the center of the tung. Lanthanated no marks, thoriated 1 mark, arc-zone  2 marks and ceriated 3 marks. Doesnt seem to bother anything as I sharpen both ends. This way I always know which tung. is being used. If I had to use only 1 it would be lanthanated.Most of what I weld is under 100 amps so a 1/16 works well and is quicker to sharpen than a 3/32. Especially when you stick it in the puddle. ( happens a lot for me)mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by papasloanDont do much ac welding but I do a lot of starts and stops on stainless tubing. Lanthanated has the best start charteristics of the different types. I get more starts from lanthanated before resharpening. Ceriated and thoriated seem to frost over and the hf just bounces in the cup until I resharpen. Once welding they all seem to work about the same.To identify which tung I am using I will grind 1, 2 or 3 small grind marks in the center of the tung. Lanthanated no marks, thoriated 1 mark, arc-zone  2 marks and ceriated 3 marks. Doesnt seem to bother anything as I sharpen both ends. This way I always know which tung. is being used. If I had to use only 1 it would be lanthanated.Most of what I weld is under 100 amps so a 1/16 works well and is quicker to sharpen than a 3/32. Especially when you stick it in the puddle. ( happens a lot for me)
Reply:I guess looking at these poll results kind of freak me out.  I am sure there is more than one way to skin a cat, but isn't there a best way as well?  Maybe this is a case of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.Miller 330 a/bp water cooledI believe in gun control, I hold my gun with two hands.  If you want to know why, click here.Buy American or bye America.
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanYou've forgotten about zirconated tungsten.  Made just for AC.
Reply:Originally Posted by insternoThese are great for a transformer based machines in AC, but I don't think anybody uses them on an inverter in AC....
Reply:My God, do you realize you're "talking to yourself".Hasn't enough been said/written about tungsten options when using a damn inverter.Pick up the phone and have Arc-Zone send you a few samples.  Try them.  Use the tungsten that works best for YOU.You and Krunch over on the Hobart board need to get together and come up with a bunch of new off-the-wall questions that don't have sh1t to do with tig welding or which you'll never encounter.There's hundreds of posts out there on tungsten selection.  Not one of them is going to tell YOU what works best for YOU.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIMy God, do you realize you're "talking to yourself".Hasn't enough been said/written about tungsten options when using a damn inverter.Pick up the phone and have Arc-Zone send you a few samples.  Try them.  Use the tungsten that works best for YOU.You and Krunch over on the Hobart board need to get together and come up with a bunch of new off-the-wall questions that don't have sh1t to do with tig welding or which you'll never encounter.There's hundreds of posts out there on tungsten selection.  Not one of them is going to tell YOU what works best for YOU.
Reply:Might want to check the links out on this page; http://joewelder.com/category/tig-we...en-electrodes/Seems like the subject has been beat to death but 20% are using arc-time elctrodes.Is this because of quality, consistency, or any better performance?
Reply:If some of our posters spent 1/10th as much time in the shop with their welders on and their hood down as they do posting on a welding forum, they'd have their own answers.As far as tungstens go, I can spend ten minutes of arc time and tell you which tungsten "Works BEST for ME" on either a transformer or inverter based machine.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIIf some of our posters spent 1/10th as much time in the shop with their welders on and their hood down as they do posting on a welding forum, they'd have their own answers.As far as tungstens go, I can spend ten minutes of arc time and tell you which tungsten "Works BEST for ME" on either a transformer or inverter based machine.
Reply:The primary concerns are the abiltiy of the electrode to handle the current you are runniing without defoming the end and causing an erratic arc, and the ability of the electrode to easily initiate an arc over repeated starts.  These attributes are well documented by diamondgroundproducts and others.  Other than these factors, any affect of the electrode on the weld, or your ability to make the weld is negligable. Beginners have a bunch of more important variables to worry about other than electrode choice, how about just holding a consistent arc length at a constant travel speed.   I don't believe in an electrode that "works best for me". I believe that the science behind the development of the electrode supports it's use for a given application.
Reply:Actually Pulser, there is a tungsten that "works best for me".If your variables are held rather constant, an experienced tigger can tell the difference in tungstens produced by different manufacturers.  For example, not all 2% Lanthanated tungstens are the same, even thought the blue is the same.I've actually had better results with Sylvania Thoridated tungstens than I have with the thoriated tungstens from tungstendirect.com (but not enough difference for me to pay the price for Sylvania)The point I was trying to make to the OP was that there are already hundreds of threads discussing tungsten selection.  Surely we didn't need a damn poll to add to the discussion.  So many new tiggers get wrapped up in minutia that they never learn to tig weld.  I see so many "internet welders" on here posting question after question that don't amount to jack **** when it comes down to welding.  If they spent the time on the bench rather than the keyboard, they'd already know what's important.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:the rare earth tungstens I spoke about before I think are similar to the arctimes in that there stated to be pretty universal, ac & dc for inverters... it's stated to be good for all metals. also I said in my last post that it balled up a bit but worked great, well it balled up at 50/50 balance, but when I try it at 70%en it doesn't ball up at all & does hold a nice tip... I think I agree that as a beginner the tungsten is less of an issue than proper technique...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Sundown my friend you need to get laid! Being a little hard on "Pinjas" it was your reply to the post that had sent me over to arc-zone for a look at their thoriated tungstens.I have my tungsten mindset formed.Sometimes I think well waa waa waa, not another question on tungstens or 6011 amperage but in this case "pinjas" set up a poll, with interesting results."Papasloan" and others pointed out sharpening both sides of the tungsten which with me being mioptic never thought of this, and so it turned out to be a worthwhile thread and overall positive information.Would have been nice to hear about arc-time by someone that uses it, instead of a rant, this is what they say from the above thread I posted;"What started as “cult product” with a few specialty manufacturers of yatch towers, aerospace parts, mountain bikes and race cars has grown into our most poular tungsten electrode product.Professional fabricators choose ArcTime™ because of its excellent ignition properties, low burn off rate and tip longevity.  In other words, this stuff lasts!As an added bonus, ArcTime™ hybrid tungsten electrodes work well with all power sources and all metals from mild steel to titanium. The material is clearly differentiated by it’s Sky Blue™ color code.The NEW ArcTime™ offers all that, at a price even a hobbyist or small weld shop can afford.We are so certain that you will benefit from the new ArcTime™ Hybrid, we are offering a Unconditional Money Back Guarantee backed by our industry-leading No-Hassle Return Policy."unquoteI don't think anyone should be picked on in this forum or any other and I wonder if you do any active welding any more, or piddle around in your boat or on the web because you spent and average of 1 post per day on this forum from the day you joined, 1 every three days at Hobart, and Miller well you get the idea.....who is the "internet welder".For many it is a cheap source of referal materials.And then you post stuff like this and complain about others.Quote:Join Date: Jan 2007Location: Deltaville, VAPosts: 780   Well Pxxxxa,I did have a colonoscopy done on Friday, and as part of the prep, I did spend a good deal of time on the THRONE on Thursday and Thursday evening."So how was your colonoscopy?Nobody needs to know how your bowel movement was.I get a few minutes every day to browse the ww, and a few minutes in the reading room to bone up on recent changes and structural repairs, and things I have forgotten like many other users; it is insulting to readers, unprofessional and conduct unbecoming someone who wants to be recognized as an authority.Best,Originally Posted by pistolnoonconduct unbecoming someone who wants to be recognized as an authority.
Reply:Back to the subject.  An interesting observation made by Sundown was that the same types of electrodes from different manufacturers respond differently.  I found this to be true, as well.  I use Ceriated (2%) mostly and ordered a sample from a well known company just to try their product.  I ended up sending the electrode back to the company so they could analyze what might be wrong with it.  The electrode sputtered and carried on to the point I thought there was something happening to my welder (TA-185 AC/DC).  I switched back to my "normal" Ceriated electrode and everything went back to normal immediately.  So, the moral of this story is that it is good to try different brands as well as the different types of electrodes.  For the record, the best electrodes for me and my machine, I get from HTP America.  I've tried most other brands, and these perform the best.  Good company to deal with, as well!