Price of filler rod

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I just priced some TIG filler rod for the first time, and I'm confused. Why does it cost me so much more to buy a pound of filler rod than it does to buy stick electrodes? It would seem to me that stick electrodes would be more expensive per pound because they have to mix the flux, bake it on, etc... whereas filler rods you just draw out the wire, cut it to length, and stamp it. What am I missing?For comparison, I'm seeing mild steel TIG filler at between $5 to $10 / lb, whereas I buy 10 lb boxes of stick electrodes for around $25, or $2.50 / lb.
Reply:If you have a product that has very few uses and it is only sold to a select few users, You can price it anyway you want. 1/8 aluminum rod at my welding supply costs 18,75 a lb.  I can go down the street to the scrap metal buyer and buy the same rod new that they make electrical cable out of for 1 dollar a lb. It welds just as good as the 18 dollar stuff.  But it dose have to be unwound from the electrical cable and somewhat straightened.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerIf you have a product that has very few uses and it is only sold to a select few users, You can price it anyway you want. 1/8 aluminum rod at my welding supply costs 18,75 a lb.  I can go down the street to the scrap metal buyer and buy the same rod new that they make electrical cable out of for 1 dollar a lb. It welds just as good as the 18 dollar stuff.  But it dose have to be unwound from the electrical cable and somewhat straightened.
Reply:So for mild steel, I should just buy stick electrodes and then scrape off all the flux and use them as filler!
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerYou can price it anyway you want. 1/8 aluminum rod at my welding supply costs 18,75 a lb.  I can go down the street to the scrap metal buyer and buy the same rod new that they make electrical cable out of for 1 dollar a lb. It welds just as good as the 18 dollar stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellSo for mild steel, I should just buy stick electrodes and then scrape off all the flux and use them as filler!
Reply:I think it comes down to popularity as well - and the stigma of TIG welding.  For instance, if stick electrodes were $20 a pound no one would buy them... or few would.  Stick is used by a lot of farmers, field work, etc.  They're not necessarily going for clean aesthetic welds they just need something to work and work well - in doing so, a LOT of people stick weld daily on farms, in plants, on rigs, in construction.  However, TIG, for the most part, is specific to a lot of "higher end" operations - pipe fitting, automotive processes, etc.  Plus like others mentioned you're buying 1 lb of stainless steel rods and getting 1 lb of stainless steel whereas with stick electrodes much of the weight is the flux etc.Miller Diversion 180Hobart Handler 140 (Soon to be replaced with Miller 211?)Miller Spectrum 625 Extreme
Reply:Depending on what you are welding you can use MIG wire for tig as well. TIG welding isn't cheap, if you want cheap flip the switch to stick.
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellSo for mild steel, I should just buy stick electrodes and then scrape off all the flux and use them as filler!
Reply:The electrical Al wire is pure Aluminum and has to be to get good electrical power and low voltage drop. It does carry around 1 steel wire per 7 Al wires so it doesnt stretch. I beleive the steel is called the GUY wire. I think they call it ACSW or Al conductor steel wire. The 4043 and other AL alloys are used to give Aluminum strength in the weld where strength is important and conductivity is not.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideThe electrical Al wire is pure Aluminum and has to be to get good electrical power and low voltage drop. It does carry around 1 steel wire per 7 Al wires so it doesnt stretch. I beleive the steel is called the GUY wire. I think they call it ACSW or Al conductor steel wire. The 4043 and other AL alloys are used to give Aluminum strength in the weld where strength is important and conductivity is not.
Reply:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumini...inforced_cablerltmn , you sure are quick with wikipedia but do you have any real world xperiance? I have a piece of wire in my scrap pile with the steel reinforcement in the middle. The electric travels near the outer edge or the Aluminum. Now go and sharpen a drill bit on your DD 750 or something.
Reply:I just priced S-2, 3/32", 10lbs, from two suppliers in hellions they were $7-9 per lb. for 10 lbs. I went over to Airgas in Indiana, by the refineries, $3.46 per lb. Go find a LWS that sells a ton of it."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by Insaneridehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumini...inforced_cablerltmn , you sure are quick with wikipedia but do you have any real world xperiance? I have a piece of wire in my scrap pile with the steel reinforcement in the middle. The electric travels near the outer edge or the Aluminum. Now go and sharpen a drill bit on your DD 750 or something.
Reply:The 8000 alloy you referenced appears to be Al with Fe. The iron does add strength but it seems the main advantage is to reduce theft as the scrap value is not worth the trouble for thieves. The Al in pure form is better than an Al alloy. The reason copper is pure for electricity is the same reason. A copper alloy would increase resistance and that would cause fires.The wikipedia reference was one that a moderator here shared and I had it in my archives. It would seem to me that some electrical transmission uses pure Al and some where theft is a concern uses the Fe alloy. So, do you know what is used in 4043, 6160and or 5053 ? Thanks in advance because Im sure you or someone here will know.
Reply:Actually there are several reasons for the alloying metals in aluminum electrical wire.1) the thermal coefficient of expansion is made to be closer to copper.  With the coefficient of expansion of  early aluminum wires being significantly different than copper, aluminum wires tightened into copper lugs would loosen over time.2) reduced surface corrosion.  Pure aluminum is highly reactive, and aluminum oxide is non-conductive.3) reduced issues with work hardening.  Pure aluminum work hardens and gets brittle.8000 series aluminum is a catchall number.  It is the designation for the proprietary aluminum alloys that don't have the conventional alloying agents.  Iron is a possibility, but aluminum beryllium alloys as used in the space shuttle tanks would fall in this range, among a long list of other weird alloys.I'm not really sure what is in it, but I suspect that it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.4043 and 5356 are designed to have a lot of ductility, to resist the stretching that occurs as a weld puddle cools and shrinks, to resist cracking.  4043 does this with silicon.  5356 does this with magnesium,Last edited by rlitman; 04-15-2013 at 10:44 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanActually there are several reasons for the alloying metals in aluminum electrical wire.1) the thermal coefficient of expansion is made to be closer to copper.  With the coefficient of expansion of  early aluminum wires being significantly different than copper, aluminum wires tightened into copper lugs would loosen over time.2) reduced surface corrosion.  Pure aluminum is highly reactive, and aluminum oxide is non-conductive.3) reduced issues with work hardening.  Pure aluminum work hardens and gets brittle.8000 series aluminum is a catchall number.  It is the designation for the proprietary aluminum alloys that don't have the conventional alloying agents.  Iron is a possibility, but aluminum beryllium alloys as used in the space shuttle tanks would fall in this range, among a long list of other weird alloys.I'm not really sure what is in it, but I suspect that it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.4043 and 5356 are designed to have a lot of ductility, to resist the stretching that occurs as a weld puddle cools and shrinks, to resist cracking.  4043 does this with silicon.  5356 does this with magnesium,
Reply:Just wanted to add, i usually pay $3-3.50lb for steel filler. Don't know why it would cost you so muchAirco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manI just priced S-2, 3/32", 10lbs, from two suppliers in hellions they were $7-9 per lb. for 10 lbs. I went over to Airgas in Indiana, by the refineries, $3.46 per lb. Go find a LWS that sells a ton of it.
Reply:Originally Posted by joshuabardwellSo far, all my prices are coming from online. I'm having the damndest time finding an LWS. I guess there's an Airgas. Can I assume that they also sell welding supplies? I guess I could just call them and ask... I called around a little while ago looking for someone local selling TIG electrodes and drew a blank.EDIT: Yeah. Looks like AirGas is my go-to.
Reply:I tried aluminum from electrical wire and compared to 4043, the welds were flatter. When would pure Al be preferred over an alloy?
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideI tried aluminum from electrical wire and compared to 4043, the welds were flatter. When would pure Al be preferred over an alloy?
Reply:Anyone use eBay tig fillers?-2 speedglas 9002x + Adflo-Miller Dynasty 200DX-HH 210 Mvp
Reply:Originally Posted by BenDoverAnyone use eBay tig fillers?
Reply:I know everyone likes to save money, and cheap filler is great if you are just starting out working on your timing and dipping,and even for a lot of projects, but once you start working on things that really matter I want to know that i have not only the correct filler but also a quality one. A few dollars per pound  hurts the wallet just a little but lets me sleep at night.Syncrowave 180 SDMillermatic 250XSnap On MW 120 Econopac 50Victor O/A with some Smith Attachments 30 X 50 shop with a 400 AmpsIf you want to pay more for the same certified filler, by all means, go ahead.I personally am happy to pay a small premium to support my LWS.  Anyway, shipping on filler is pretty high.  But I'm not paying extra to buy it in one pound lots.  The per pound prices that my LWS charges are crazy.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelon1100 filler is nearly pure and extremely soft. It is commonly used to tack dip braze assys as it resists cracking when packed with braze compound and dipped in molten sodium to melt the braze filler into the joint.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelon1100 filler is nearly pure and extremely soft. It is commonly used to tack dip braze assys as it resists cracking when packed with braze compound and dipped in molten sodium to melt the braze filler into the joint.