Aluminum stick welding project

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Hello all,I thought I would pass on my experience using aluminum stick welding to repair a broken out part of an aluminum tranny.I get called out fairly regularly to repair all types of damage to aluminum transmissions and engine blocks.  These range from broken out bolt holes to holes in cases and broken cases that need to be welded back together.I always use TIG for these repairs and when I am able to upgrade my machine I would like to incorporate a spool gun for these types of repairs as well as TIG is painfully slow especially in a repair welding situation where much of it may be out of position.Anyway, I recently bought some aluminum stick rod to get me out of a bind where I ran into a repair where I couldn't get into an area with my TIG torch as the repair was positioned in a way that did not allow me any maneuverability.The aluminum stick rod was the ONLY way to get in there and seal up the final part of the repair that I was unable to reach.  My experience over the years with this type of rod was that it pours the metal down but is not an easily controlled puddle as it burns so fast all you have time to do is strike the arc and hang on for dear life as it burns down in nothing flat.However last night I was repairing a transmission that had broken out two mounts to the chassis.  It was a little tricky getting into the area to weld it due to the awkward position I had to hold to get in there and build up the area.  Here in Phoenix it was like 115 degrees and I had started my day at 7am. This was my third service call and second for aluminum auto related repair work.  I had just patched an engine that had a hole in the block.Needless to say, I was beat and I had just completed one mount and had to get to the next one (actually the job called to repair one broken mount but upon dis-assembly, the other mount finished breaking off too).  The car had been in an accident and the new owner did not see the damage when she was scoping it out before buying it.I told the shop owner and car owner that I would have to get back to the job Thursday because I had run out of steam, it was already 5pm.  I had a job lined up for today t hat would take me all day.  I couldn't go on yesterday another minute I was so tired.  The lady was real worried because she needed the car to make it to work.  Things being the way they are, there are many people waiting to take your job and many employers take advantage of this to keep their workers on their toes worrying about their jobs.Out of desperation I decided I would use the stick rod to build up the broken area as it would be quicker than my usual TIG approach.  I needed to improvise a dam that would hold the puddle in place instead of flowing out of the build up area.  I keep copper on hand for just such situations as it is an effective dam for a variety of metals where you need to keep something in place or prevent burn through, etc.So I had the car owner hold the copper in place for me and started running beads and moving the dam in different positions to accomplish a circular build up of metal needed to drill and tap the new threads.To my surprise and relief, it worked perfect! In fact it worked better than I had imagined it would.  So much so that I decided I am going to switch to the stick rod for repairs that are done in the flat position.  I was able to build up in less than 1/2 an hour where using the tig approach it took me almost two hours.  I was able to build up, drill and tap both holes for the tranny mounts before quitting for the day.  She got her car that night and I did not have to return, taking the pressure off that I had another service call.  Now I was free to get to that job I have lined up without any distractions.Just thought I would pass that along as it was new to me.  While I'm on the subject, has anyone run this type of rod out of position?  Will it go down hill for example?  Can it go up hill?  Being able to stick the rod in a hard to reach or see corner of a repair in a vertical position sure would be handy.  For example can one put one tack after another with this rod and accomplish an overhead bead?  That is, strike an arc, lay enough for a tack and then break the arc, clean it off and repeat it over and over again?Thanks,Tony
Reply:Hi Tony,I ran a repair using the 1/8" on an aluminum box dump truck a few months ago. Just the mudflap brackets but it was 4F position at around 84 amps. You want to be ready to run it fast and I wouldn't get under it. The flying and dripping slag off these rods is nasty stuff. Didn't look all that pretty but it survived the BFH test.Eric
Reply:What specific rod do you prefer?
Reply:Yes, I'd like to hear the answer to farmall's question, "What specific rod do you prefer?"When I was using 1/8 inch Hobart Aluminum 4043, I found welding 'uphill' at a 45 degree angle gave me best results on fillet welds.  Basically, it's a weld in the simplist 1F position (provides a channel to contain the molten metal) but rotated 45 degrees toward the 3F vertical position.The quasi-uphill position put a lot of useful preheat into the local ahead just ahead of the weld puddle .  Another advantage was that the runny slag stayed behind the arc and didn`t have a chance to interfere with the welding arc - as it did in the 1F and 2F positions.Last edited by Rick V; 06-29-2011 at 06:59 PM.Reason: omission - needed to add somethingRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:I  use MG400 (when the wind is a problem), you can run it up hill,  I do a preheat which allows me to turn the machine down a little.
Reply:Hi all,I don't have a "favorite" per se.  I happen to have used aluminum welding rods about 3 or 4 times during my life as a welder.  This last experience I used "The Aluminator" from Messer, MG Welding Products.It ran the same as others I've used in the pass, fast and hard to control.  However this is the first time I've used it rod after rod and I find that it has it's own characteristics as I was able to direct the arc and puddle to accomplish the build up I was seeking.It comes in little packs of about 20 rods.  I can't remember how much I paid for it or where I got it.as at the time I was trying to find anything that would get me out of a bind I got myself into.  I plan to make it a point to carry them with me from now on.Sorry I didn't take pictures of the job I just did.Tony
Reply:Hi,will MG400 run overhead?  My take is that these types of rods are so "watery" that it would drip down but I have never tried it.  My theory is to put tacks together to form a bead.  Think it will work?Tony
Reply:Originally Posted by therrerawill MG400 run overhead?  My take is that these types of rods are so "watery" that it would drip down but I have never tried it.  My theory is to put tacks together to form a bead.  Think it will work?  Tony
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraHi,will MG400 run overhead?  My take is that these types of rods are so "watery" that it would drip down but I have never tried it.  My theory is to put tacks together to form a bead.  Think it will work?Tony
Reply:Hi all,sorry for not replying sooner.  The instant notification did not notify me.  Well I tried it out and ran some of it on a couple of hard to reach places on an engine block I was sealing up.  I tigged up all around the patch and ran two  small areas that were hard to reach with the TIG torch.  I ran the bead with a TIG torch to smooth it down.  Not pretty, but acceptable.I'll report how it goes,Tony
Reply:Hello all,I have since used this rod about three more times since my last post as I get called a lot to do aluminum repairs.  It has its place and I can't see how I got along without it as my usual approach to aluminum repairs is TIG.I will reserve it exclusively for material heavier than 1/8" and I will make sure I preheat.  I found out first hand that the preheated part started to fuse almost immediately as opposed to unheated where it left a large cold lap.I ran a few cold on a job and struck my arc before the actual repair location in order to build up heat for adequate fusion.  It worked, but left a large cold lap.  Would only do that if I had run out of oxy/acetelyne.Take care,Tony
Reply:stick   welding with aluminum   ?   i didnt even know   they made  a alum  rod  for stick welding   , looks intresting   ,id like to try it   ......    were   can i  get rods like that?     thanks>Innovations are what i leave behind for History
Reply:I think all the major big names make aluminum welding rod.  Here in Phoenix, one of my local welding suppliers sells it for around $30 a pound.  Just ask the welding supplier for which rod he carries.  Some carry one brand but not another.For example I just bought some Harris brand aluminum rod but before that I was using MG brand rod.Just remember to keep a torch handy so you can preheat the area to weld so you can avoid the big cold lap.  Also if you preheat, it may have a tendency to drip through as the metal gets real hot so be prepared to move fast lest you burn a hole. You have to run it to get a feel for it, but once  you do, it's just a matter of getting used to it's characteristics.Here are a few brands to look up:Forney 2102697 DC Aluminum Arc Flux Coated Rod 1/8Hobart H722844-RDP - 10 Pack Aluminum Electrodes, 4043 - 1/8$11 online Take care,Tony
Reply:Originally Posted by therreraI think all the major big names make aluminum welding rod.  Here in Phoenix, one of my local welding suppliers sells it for around $30 a pound.  Just ask the welding supplier for which rod he carries.  Some carry one brand but not another.For example I just bought some Harris brand aluminum rod but before that I was using MG brand rod.Just remember to keep a torch handy so you can preheat the area to weld so you can avoid the big cold lap.  Also if you preheat, it may have a tendency to drip through as the metal gets real hot so be prepared to move fast lest you burn a hole. You have to run it to get a feel for it, but once  you do, it's just a matter of getting used to it's characteristics.Here are a few brands to look up:Forney 2102697 DC Aluminum Arc Flux Coated Rod 1/8Hobart H722844-RDP - 10 Pack Aluminum Electrodes, 4043 - 1/8$11 online Take care,Tony
Reply:So this may be sort of a strange question, but I recently bought some 4043 rods from Hobart and quickly found out that it is not going to work for my application. But then I had another thought which may be absolute stupidity but I figured I'd ask it anyway. I have a 200amp DC Arc welder, TIG welder, and plasma cutter. None of these will be getting the job done from what I've heard so far. BUT I also have an extra can of MAPP gas sitting around and I began to wonder if I could just braze the aluminum with the 4043 electrodes. I am basically joining a 3/16" flange to an even thinner blow off valve adaptor pipe. I figured the 4043 was coated in flux and melts around 1100 degrees F, so it might be possible to use it for brazing with MAPP gas. But welding is far from my specialty so I figured I'd ask some more knowledgable people.thanks
Reply:Hello thejfactors300zx,I have never gas welded aluminum.  However I am going to get into it as the more I get into aluminum projects the more I see the value in knowing how to weld it in different forms.  Aluminum used to be all gas welded back in the day before there was TIG or MIG.  I used to see pictures on the old welding magazines or trade journals showing welders assembling all types of things from aircraft parts to kitchen items with a torch in one hand and rod in the other.Do a search for gas welding aluminum and all kinds of hits come up.  I believe I've seen some video links as well pointing to youtube.com.  You can use this rod for gas welding, only I don't know if that flux will work with gas.  They make an aluminum flux but other sites where I've gotten into about welding aluminum say to use it in its pure state, just make sure it's shiny bright clean.Experimentation is one of the traits of a good welder.  You won't know unless you try. Even if the book says not to do something procedurally, trying it will give you a first hand look at what happens so you can from that point on add that to your knowledge base about welding.For example the first time a welder tries to weld thin or rusted metal with an arc and watches it blow holes and make a mess of it.  This way when he or she encounters it in real life, they will recognize it right away as rusty metal or thin metal and know how to compensate,  And so on.Good luck,Tony
Reply:A search on this site will reveal existing threads on:- stick welding aluminum - with examples of preheat and no preheat,- comparative performance of different brands of aluminum electordes, and- brazing (low & high temperature) aluminum with discussion on appropriate fluxes.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VA search on this site will reveal existing threads on:- stick welding aluminum - with examples of preheat and no preheat,- comparative performance of different brands of aluminum electordes, and- brazing (low & high temperature) aluminum with discussion on appropriate fluxes.
Reply:I used to have a package of Aluminum rods from US Forge and they stated you could use them with gas. In fact, I tried it with an oxy'mapp torch. My results were not good, but that was due to a woefully inexperienced operator holding the rod and torch.I recently bought some Hobart rod at my local Northern Tool and like above, I welded a couple large pieces of an old motorcycle loading ramp together. The bead wasn't pretty, but held up to the BFH test.I might have another go with the oxy/mapp torch to see what I can do with it.Good luck,PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175