Tig welding #3 with lots pics

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[IMG][/IMG]This is third post about how shocked I am at the lack of penetration my dynasty 200 at 200 amps gives.  This is pic log of experimentation for second time on steel plates.  Questions I have is why penetration so low if fusion welding (1/2 inch weld give 1/8 penetration)? Why does filler improve penetration?  Is there anyway to increase this without buying bigger machine? Any slower and I will have a 3/4 weld bead and for 3/16 plate Ifeel 1/2 is way to big. Any thoughts Thanks Tim. (all of pic are in my album)
Reply:Put a gap between your plates of 1/8"- and do another test please.
Reply:Your going to have to do some reading up since you say we've been welding for a year.  Go buy some books not only about tig but that will also cover othe types of welding to give you a better understanding of welding . Also you need to look back at some of the work you have done to see if it is safe or needs to be redone.  It seems that your missing the basics and understanding of welding, maybe you should really consider taking a class.
Reply:This is third post about how shocked I am at the lack of penetration my dynasty 200 at 200 amps gives.  This is pic log of experimentation for second time on steel plates. Questions I have is why penetration so low if fusion welding (1/2 inch weld give 1/8 penetration)? Why does filler improve penetration?  Is there anyway to increase this without buying bigger machine? Any slower and I will have a 3/4 weld bead and for 3/16 plate I feel 1/2 is way to big. Any thoughts Thanks Tim. (all of pic are in my album)[/QUOTE]1-go to Miller's site, get some basic freeby stuff on Tig and your machine---do yourself and others a big favor....pop for the $25 package deal they have.Apparently, you're hell bent create basically fusion welds--and see no benefit to the use of filler rod, to create a strong weld joint that will pass a bend test.Some study of the basic welding materials above, would help you.Heat penetration is the result of the weld process---you're trying to do the reverse!Welds comprised mainly of fused parent material--with little fillerare not-necessarily strong welds. That test piece shown previously with hugeundercut and a 1/16" overlay of SS is telling you some things.'Full pen' welds are accomplished by joint preparation..........and the use of filler rod.2-switch to 1/8" tungsten3-"Why does filler improve penetration? "The molten filler puddle adds thermal mass, to wet out and fuse into the parent material. 'Is there anyway to increase this without buying bigger machine?'   'Full pen' welds are accomplished by joint preparation..........and the use of filler rod.4-There's nothing wrong with the machine (some study of Miller's recco's on basic setupfor DC tig would be in order for you)---the problem is all in your perception ofwhat the weld should be and how that it/is not accomplished.Blackbird
Reply:Your weld ends need major work..Eliminate the holes.Come to the end of the weld and slowly go around in a small circle the size of the bead and add filler in small dabs while letting off the pedal.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:you running dcen or dcep? also as stated above, an 1/8" tungstenLast edited by brucer; 11-27-2010 at 05:48 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Hold your tungsten closer to the work piece.  (maintaining a "tighter arc".)  This will prevent the heat from spreading out as wide, and it will concentrate the heat right on the gap, making better penetation, and not a wide of a weld bead.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruHold your tungsten closer to the work piece.  (maintaining a "tighter arc".)  This will prevent the heat from spreading out as wide, and it will concentrate the heat right on the gap, making better penetation, and not a wide of a weld bead.
Reply:All right I am about to give up.  For those who offered suggestions thank you. I will try larger tungsten as I have that for my aluminum work and try for tighter arc. Most of the bead size seen in the pics is from going so slow. Just seems that should get more out of machine then this. If anyone  would mind slapping too plates together NO GAP 200 amps dc with nice slow pass and break it or cut it for me and tell me how much penetration they get. I would really like to know.  Better yet just run a bead on a solid plate and cut with metal saw. seen that here before in some of zaps posts. Where they weld bend and cut it.  Not interested in weld so much as how deep it goes with 200 amps.  Think its acid etched?I realize I could bevel and weld a 1 inch plate with lots of passes and filler more interested in how current and time and filler effect penetration?   A friend with a stick welder cranked his machine to 200 amps and using 1/8 7018 blows a hole in the plate instantly and melts rod.  I get a huge puddle and even going very slow don't go though the plate.  He runs stick welder at half that current even when welding huge farm parts. yes many passes.Blackbird thank for info on filler. Could you explain more? do the metals mix and melt better like tin and lead make solder.  Brucer I dont really know.I will have to find manual again I think it sets it automatic and I can over ride it.  The leads only instal oneway i don't think I can screw it up but maybe?7A749 will you give it a shot with your maxstar 150 and see what you get? Maybe I will sell you mine and get bigger dynasty make my aluminum welding easier on the bigger stuff. although this machine makes beautiful aluminum welds.will buy better welding book or ask for xmas.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardA tight arc will require less amps and thus less heat won't it?
Reply:I wouldnt say more filler helps penetration. More filler means more material so you would need even more heat. As FB said you need to gap or bevel.Miller Dynasty 700Miller Dynasty 200Miller 350pMiller 252Hobart Handler 187Lincoln Weld pack 180Victor O/AHypertherm 1250Hobart Airforce 500IPractical cnc
Reply:To butt two pieces of 1/4" plate(no gap) and weld them together is useless. You need to have proper joint prep, 37.5* bevel with gap and two passes.  Tig doesn't have the voltage that stick does inorder to push the puddle through like you stated in your example earlier. Tig is normally at 15v to 17v where stick can be 24v to 36v. Time to open up some books.
Reply:Awesome!!!!! so their is a difference between 200 amps tig and 200 amps stick if voltage is 30 to 50 percent higher(power could be twice as much wattage= current x voltage) explains why stick gets such better penetration. Maybe nothing wrong with welder but still shocked at how little penetration tig gets.Still would love to see some else test.Thank you Jay O __________ Tim
Reply:Originally Posted by novisionAwesome!!!!! so their is a difference between 200 amps tig and 200 amps stick if voltage is 30 to 50 percent higher(power could be twice as much wattage= current x voltage) explains why stick gets such better penetration.
Reply:Thank you  Tensaiteki for the information as this make pic a little clearer but also rises more questions. your information helps explain why filler makes a difference in penetration.  In my ignorance of what is actual happening I thought a fusion weld would have the greatest penetration less thermal mass to dissipate the energy. Thats why I didn't want a gap in the plates was more interested in energy transfer then the weld it self.  So the tools I have so far are tungsten shape, type and filler choice most of the other factors appear to have smaller and smaller effects on weld but cumulatively make a difference.I looked at your website, very nice. In your pipe welding testing you cut strips out and bent to test the welds.  Is how much larger is welded v of material than the original bevel? Is their an expectation (less is better or more is better).  Some of your other projects are cool too.Basically I assumed my machine would do more.  But its what I have and I do enjoy learning.  If I need I could just pay someone to make things for me. Thats not the point. This is a hobby for me. and I have don't have as much time as I would like for each.
Reply:I had 5 extra minutes this morning, wish I had more time.3/16" plate3/32 tungsten, 125 amps maxI ran the root with a 1/8" root opening, 3/32" filler. A little more heat would have gave me better penetration, or grind a bevel with somewhere around 1/8"-3/32" root face with a 1/8" root opening. Ran a bit of a half *** cover. 1/8" filler, ~100 amps.      Im a bit rusty! Attached Images
Reply:novision  -  Your welding machine is fine - less welding - more books.    OPUS
Reply:I can speak from experiance, two of the best things I did, bought a book, and took a class. you need to do some major studying, with proper joint prep that would be an easy(er) weld, you cant just but it together and weld something that thick without, say, about 800 to 1000 amps. Proper preperation is at least 50% of welding.Travis
Reply:Novision, I would send this welder back to Miller and maybe try to find a good used Everlast 250ex or maybe purchase a new one.Take the $1,500 dollars you have left over and blow it on some hookers.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardA tight arc will require less amps and thus less heat won't it?
Reply:Keep at it and you will get it down. Tig takes the most time to learn.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by Jay OTo butt two pieces of 1/4" plate(no gap) and weld them together is useless. You need to have proper joint prep, 37.5* bevel with gap and two passes.  Tig doesn't have the voltage that stick does inorder to push the puddle through like you stated in your example earlier. Tig is normally at 15v to 17v where stick can be 24v to 36v. Time to open up some books.
Reply:^^^Ditto bevel them bad boys and you will get all the way through. You have a damn fine machine.