Talk me out of purchasing a new TIG welder.

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Talk me out of purchasing a new TIG welder. I’m a hobby guy who is not even that good at MIG welding but I’m pulled towards a TIG welder. It makes no sense. I don’t understand me either.        I look at guys TIG welds posted on here and think someday……..I go on craigslist and never seem to find TIG machines in my niche.                I imagine a used Miller Syncrowave 180-200  is what I should hunt for.                 Talk some sense in me. Is it insanely hard?Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:cant help ya i bought a tig few years back and im barely starting to learn it basically comes down to want or need i didn't need one but i wanted one and got one 350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off
Reply:Originally Posted by Reebs Miller Syncrowave 180-200  is what I should hunt for.                 Talk some sense in me. Is it insanely hard?
Reply:No, learning is good. I love all the different ways to weld.1) Syncorwave is a pro level machine.....You can get by using a machine that runs dc power. or ac/dc if you would like.Using scratch start is the cheapest way to go.For $400-500 or less you could easily be into it.1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:I'm with ya Reebs ...For that matter, why even bother with MIG if ya don't mind the time that TIG would take to do the same job. Another example, cutoff wheel versus plasma cuts ... Sure MIG and plasma will make most jobs faster/easier. Then again, a hacksaw+file and a TIG are likely to be slower/harder. Individuals can make their own decisions on their own situations about the time they are willing to invest in a task (and the payoff in quality they can accept).I was talking with a pro woodworker (kitchen installer). His work trailer and his skills were enough that he can do very fine woodworking on-site. Sure he can't do "production" level work and be cost effective, but he has shown me what skilled craftsman with limited tools can produce (without thousands of dollars of equipment and lots of shop space). I even offered to have him use my router table for a task ... he preferred to use his portable table saw.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donoharmwell, i'm not gonna talk you into just that , a tigger is good to have around, even better if you know what to do with it but why evrybody wants to tig aluminium? buy expensive machines that they don't know how to use ...
Reply:Originally Posted by jsm11No, learning is good. I love all the different ways to weld.1) Syncorwave is a pro level machine.....You can get by using a machine that runs dc power. or ac/dc if you would like.Using scratch start is the cheapest way to go.For $400-500 or less you could easily be into it.
Reply:Don't buy a TIG welder. You will have a lot of fun and learn a lot of things. There, did I do my job right? I am the kind of guy who can pick up a tool and catch on REAL fast. I learned fast (more like learning) with welding, but welding (especially TIG) is really humbling for a guy like me. I have learned a lot of patience.I think it's fun, and if you buy a TIG welder you can stick weld with it too. Stick welding is great.Anyway, my newbie $0.02
Reply:Originally Posted by ReebsTalk me out of purchasing a new TIG welder. I’m a hobby guy who is not even that good at MIG welding but I’m pulled towards a TIG welder. It makes no sense. I don’t understand me either.        I look at guys TIG welds posted on here and think someday……..I go on craigslist and never seem to find TIG machines in my niche.                I imagine a used Miller Syncrowave 180-200  is what I should hunt for.                 Talk some sense in me. Is it insanely hard?
Reply:Originally Posted by CurreyRpeople can learn to use stuff tho ... I personally am going to take classes, but also want a machine at home to practice on after class.
Reply:Don't buy yourself a TIG. Buy ME a TIG.Really, I am in the same boat, I want one very badly and don't have the cash. I am turning down TIG work because I don't have the machine or the skills yet.I am setting up a scratch start setup to learn with and will eventually get the cash for a dedicated TIG that has AC.Tozzi's setup is exactly what I am setting up.
Reply:I was in a similar situation a few months ago... but I needed a few things welded for a project I'm doing, needing both stainless and aluminum welding... I figured I had 2 choices, either pay someone to do all the welding I needed to have done, or use that money to help offset the cost of buying my own tig & learning to use it to do my own work needed now, along with anything I'll ever need in the future...I already have a mig for many years & can use it pretty well, so I thought I'd be able to be tigging away in the side of a few weeks playing with the tig...well let me tell you that it don't work that way  as taiden put it, it is humbling... I thought I'd be laying all kinds of pretty beads in short order, but it has proven to be much more challenging than I ever thought going in...it's one thing to stick 2 pieces of metal together & quite another to do the same, but with a uniform pretty looking bead the whole length of the weld, a bead that doesn't penetrate too much in some places/ not enough in others, with uniform ripples resulting from a uniform rhythmic addition of filler along the whole length of the bead... to be able to use a tig welder well enough for it to be useful will come pretty easily but to really get it to the point of tigging very well is not easy at all. I've been told that it's not very practical to ever expect an average hobbiest to be able to lay down beautiful consistent beads period... it just takes a whole lot of hours welding thing after thing after thing, more than most hobbiests will ever see... as a welder you weld day in & day out, eventually you will have to get better & better, & after a few years you could get to be really good if you apply yourself & want to get better & better, but as a hobbiest you will go out & get a few scraps to practice on, then maybe build a cart... tinker here & there, but it's hard to get anywhere near the amount of hours under the hood it'll take to really get to the point of great... school & classes will help big time, not having that just adds to the challenge a lot... to go from no experience to really good with just you & your tig is not easy at all... nothing is impossible, but you'll need to have a lot of dedication & patience just to even get to the point of somewhat adequate... if you go in with dreams of laying down beautiful beads consistently in short order your in for a disappointment...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerDon't buy yourself a TIG. Buy ME a TIG.Really, I am in the same boat, I want one very badly and don't have the cash. I am turning down TIG work because I don't have the machine or the skills yet.I am setting up a scratch start setup to learn with and will eventually get the cash for a dedicated TIG that has AC.Tozzi's setup is exactly what I am setting up.
Reply:First, I'm strictly a hobby welder.I bought a nice used tig machine off CL last year...Miller 200DX....$1500.  I didn't know how to use it but really wanted to learn tig AND I wanted to learn to weld aluminum because everyone kept saying how difficult it was to do.  Guess what...it is.  But it's a lot of fun learning and while I'm not even close to the level of the pros on this board, with practice it just keeps getting better and better....aluminum, stainless, cs...you name it.  It's a blast!There...did I talk you out of it?Miller 211 w/ spool gunMiller Dynasty 200DXLongevity 60i IGBT plasmaO/A w/ crappy chinese torch/gaugesSouth Bend 10K latheGrizzly 4029 10x54 millGrizzly 7x12 hor bandsawangle grnders, bench grnder, bench belt sndr7.5 hp 80gal cmprsor
Reply:curious ... is a background in O/A brazing/welding beneficial to learning TIG or a detriment?I'm crappy with a stick (just can't seem to be able to see the puddle well enough), but gas + filler just feels natural.I've only held a MIG gun for about 10 minutes (was flux core) ... was better than my stick, and seemed easier. Looking forward to some actual GMAW here soon.Rob <-- "just a n00b"
Reply:ZTFab,Been doing OK, just trying to keep my head above water.I already bought a #17 torch with gas knob. Just need to figure out what to get for collets and other replacement parts and what consumables and I will be able to start practicing.
Reply:Originally Posted by CurreyRcurious ... is a background in O/A brazing/welding beneficial to learning TIG or a detriment?I'm crappy with a stick (just can't seem to be able to see the puddle well enough), but gas + filler just feels natural.I've only held a MIG gun for about 10 minutes (was flux core) ... was better than my stick, and seemed easier. Looking forward to some actual GMAW here soon.Rob <-- "just a n00b"
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerZTFab,Been doing OK, just trying to keep my head above water.I already bought a #17 torch with gas knob. Just need to figure out what to get for collets and other replacement parts and what consumables and I will be able to start practicing.
Reply:Hey Reebs,Ok, gonna give you some perspective from an 'ol timer as some mental fodder to contemplate. I will give you a time-span overlay to allow you to see if my career direction choices have any similarity to yours.I started TIG back in the '60's when it was "heliarc" & got my feet wet in the tool room of the company I was working for. One of the "ol timers, way back then, was gracious enough to "allow" me to watch him TIG a special die. I was quite intrigued as I already had experience with O/A, MIG, & Stick. Not wanting to spoil my chances, I very tactfully did some gentle "probing" into his mind to see if he would take me into his graces & let me try it. Since he knew I was a gunsmith, he opened up a bit & took me under his wing. Wow...a new world opened up. I knew then that welding would be my career.I learned TIG by tremendous hours of practice, his scowling with my mistakes, yet the tool to improve, & finally reached that level of competency that was most satisfying. I will tell you that each process whether Stick, O/A, MIG, & TIG needs your time, dedication, & unending practice to become proficient. O/A definitely was a benefit to grasp TIG. Each process has a place in the arena.I use all the process in my shop now that I am retired & generally, TIG is for all the classic/show car accessories & crafts I fab. MIG is for general repairs, most easy projects, & production runs. Stick is for mobile & general outdoor work. O/A is for some aluminum jobs, brazing, sil-sol, & some cast repairs. You see, each has a function that allows me a margin of profit that is best suited to the application. You have to take into consideration the value of your investment into any new equipment. Will it be used regularly or just on occasion? Is it to add a value service to your operation? Do you have the time to be proficient with it & the added expense of the material/supplies needed? Only you can place the value on it.If you are "not even that good with MIG welding", as you stated, that would indicate you haven't spent enough time learning that process. First, increase your time getting more proficient with MIG till you "know" you're good. Until then, TIG will be a fruitless endeavor. Today, I see the youngsters/newbies who think TIG is the ultimate because they watch too much tv & reality crap. It is just a fad that will die in a short span with them. Most of them have not one iota of comprehension of the dedication & self-sacrifice that members such as Zap & ZTFab have engaged in to BE that good. Their talent is projected quite vividly on the forum with pics of their work. Now, ask yourself: "Do I have the "hunger" to be that good?" Nothing worth having is easy.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I bought a lincoln precision 185 about 4 years ago .  and now I'am trying to sell it. It's to small for what i want to do.  It has worked great for steel and stainless but, the alum. take a ton of heat - power. I want water cool set up and a bigger machine. tigs do come in handy.  you don't know how much you use it  until you have one.  A little over year ago I got lincoln power mig 255xt dual tank spool gun. and have not used my tig sence.my .02 cent do your reseach and get what you will useDaye
Reply:Please buy a quality machine if you decide on tig. Be prepared that learning tig won't happen over night. Tig takes lots of seat time!Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:A scratch-start setup or a lift-start machine would probably be the cheapest way to try TIG without sinking a ton of money into it initially.  A scratch start setup can be put together with a stick welding machine as the foundation - gives you lots of freedom to choose your torch and other components.  For lift-start, the Thermal Arc 95S is a small 110 V system that can be had for around $400.
Reply:Originally Posted by dbotosA scratch-start setup or a lift-start machine would probably be the cheapest way to try TIG without sinking a ton of money into it initially.  A scratch start setup can be put together with a stick welding machine as the foundation - gives you lots of freedom to choose your torch and other components.  For lift-start, the Thermal Arc 95S is a small 110 V system that can be had for around $400.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneFor lift arc spend a little more and find a used miller maxstar 150stl
Reply:my first machine was the obligatory 110v wirefeeder. a nice machine and it let me learn that i was puddle-fascinated. o/a is a lot like tig. you make a puddle with a torch and feed wire into the puddle. you will need some seat time, but i personally found verticalup stick harder than i did tiging steel. i have a ta185 which is aluminum-capable and have a total of 3 minutes time on aluminum..manymanymany hours of steel...when you nail the pedal and that shiny silver puddle appears like magic there s nothing like it with your clothes on..there are two truths that are selfcontradictory ..if you want it you need itf you cant afford it you dont need it..Talking you out of a tig on this forum is like talking your out of a crack purchase on an inner city corner, not gonna happen. With that, be prepared to learn, you have 3 of your limbs and all of your senses working at the same time make a weld.  It will take a while, and you will have to practice. With that being said, the work is nice, and for the car stuff i prefer it because of the look of the weld, and the lack of spatter.  People want that tig look, no matter if it's practical or not.  Plus it's just plain cool because not many hobbiests can run a tig, or should i say almost none.Syncrowave 350Coolmate 3Millermatic 251Spoolmatic 30A
Reply:Found this on Airgas.com.. Not a bad price for a new Maxstar..http://www.airgas.com/browse/product...duct=MIL907135
Reply:Simple short easy answer if you LOVE stick welding and want to know more, lots more, buy a tig. My budget is DC and mild steel only but still very happy  jnrtig
Reply:You have to use the most practical peice of equipment for the job you have to do,Tig is slower.What do you have for shop equipment, before you concentrate on a tig make sure you have a good O/A setup, cut off saw-bandsaw, grinders,drill press, basic steel bender, shears, then if you don't like fishing go to the tig.
Reply:Whatever you buy, practice RELENTLESSLY for LONG stretches of time. That's what works for any fine motor skill and why our vo-tech structural/pipe course is ten hours a day of welding. Burn and burn and burn and know there is no substitute. It's not the welder, it's the weldor. I suggest the way to avoid distractions (complex controls ARE distractions at first!) is to get a used Idealarc 250 or Dialarc, a scratch-start TIG setup like thishttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=38106and buy some clean flat bar and/or angle carbon steel with which to make training coupons. Make MANY identical coupons so your practice will give consistent feedback. Post pics for critique by the experts here (which I ain't). Setting up to learn any type of welding should be based on a plan of which the welding machine is merely a necessary part.
Reply:Its actually not that hard. But its just takes time to get used to the gas pedal or the hand switch to control the heat. I really like tig welding. Its up to you if you want it.
Reply:I like to do some tig welding every now and then.  Dont really do enough of it to become really proficient in it though.  Since I dont have a need to do a lot of it I resort to a vary basic setup.  Scratch start with a manual gas valve torch off of a dc only unit for steel tigging only.  No footpedal or amptrol.  It really will depend on what your needs or wants will be.  Good luck in your decision.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Thanks for all the input guys. I have had the stomach flu so I have not had much seat time in  front of the computer to reply.Denny /yorkiepapYou make a strong argument and I will follow the advice given. If I decide to get a machine someday I will look in to the options given. I do not see me ever welding aluminum so a DC machine is fine for me.Dreams die hardThanks againDave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Dreams die hard
Reply:Hey Reebs,My response was to simply make you think a bit regarding getting more proficient with each process. It wasn't to negate getting another unit. I agree with farmall...."say whut????" Don't say "If I decide", say "When I decide". By then, you may want to consider the aluminum factor..... it sure is nice metal to work with......  Then, you'll need to be lookin' to an AC/DC unit. Keep your dreams.... they give you a goal.....Yes, the used market is a buyers' market today in this economy & there are some superb buys out there. Don't miss out on a deal that may not come by again.....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I'd probably skip the sync 180 and 200 and jump up to the 250 if you've got the electrics to run it.  I've never heard someone say "I wish I bought a smaller welder"..... well you might say that when you try to move the 250.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by DonoharmIn my opinion Al is just beyond hobby level,
Reply:Id say the Maxstar i showed you earlier or a EZ-Tig machine. I was a die hard stick guy ....Until i started playing with TIG. I love TIG now  and hate to weld any other way . Now i know there are some apps that stick or MIG is better but, I love TIG. I love the process of using both hands and maniulating the puddle and watching it move around. I started by walking the cup but i have found after burning up about 40lbs of filler rod that free hand is great. Nothing is more satisfying then know you welded something freehand and it looks good. Try not to focus so much on the stack of dimes look when learning to TIG. Somethng i learned is its not so much torch control ,while very important , to me proper and consistent filler metal adding produces the best results. Get a rhythm in your head and push with it.....Thats what i did...
Reply:Denny I'm in agreement my skill set and bench time really do not make getting a Tig unit a wise choice. Mig is fine for the moment. The family and teaching are my focus, welding is a tool to make stuff for class.The used maxstar is an option I had never heard of. Farmall I'm afraid you are correct the economy is going to be down for years.Back to Denny please post more “how to” threads. I learn a lot from them. I built a bender similar to the one you posted on this or another form.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Originally Posted by ReebsTalk me out of purchasing a new TIG welder.
Reply:I got it!!!!!!!!Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverThe good professor has instructed us that tig is only 20 percent efficient in energy transfer. The atomic number of aluminum, being 13, is very unlucky. Magnesium is extremely flammable. Titanium turns more colors than should be allowed by law. The affinity of tungsten for weld puddles is directly proportional to the necessity of getting your job done. The amount of money left in your pocket is inversely proportional to the necessity of getting your job done.How am I doin' so far? Be ready for the plunge!
Reply:Originally Posted by ReebsI got it!!!!!!!!
Reply:"I got it" refers to the good prof. message"The amount of money left in your pocket is inversely proportional to the necessity of getting your job done."Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Sorry, I'll go to the corner, put on my dunce cap, and begin writing my lines.  "I will not assume.  I will not assume. I will not assume."         A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by Torn7thFound this on Airgas.com.. Not a bad price for a new Maxstar..http://www.airgas.com/browse/product...duct=MIL907135
Reply:Originally Posted by ReebsTalk me out of purchasing a new TIG welder. I’m a hobby guy who is not even that good at MIG welding but I’m pulled towards a TIG welder. It makes no sense. I don’t understand me either.        I look at guys TIG welds posted on here and think someday……..I go on craigslist and never seem to find TIG machines in my niche.                I imagine a used Miller Syncrowave 180-200  is what I should hunt for.                 Talk some sense in me. Is it insanely hard?
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob WarnerZTFab,Been doing OK, just trying to keep my head above water.I already bought a #17 torch with gas knob. Just need to figure out what to get for collets and other replacement parts and what consumables and I will be able to start practicing.
Reply:Originally Posted by ReebsI got it!!!!!!!!