tigging & gas flow

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Hi guys, I have purchased my first tig welder and I have a question about how the argon flow impacts the welding process. I was practicing on some 20 GA steel at about 30 amps and was getting acceptable results at about 6 cm of gas. I bumped the gas up to about. 11 cm and in practicing I noticed the flame was coming out of the side of the tungsten and the puddle was at the edge of the cup. I at first thought the tungsten was contaminated and tried to solve this problem sharpening a few times. The gas flow seemed pretty weak at 6cm compared to my mig welder and I turned the gas flow up to experiment where I might need it because of some air movement like welding outside. From what I can tell the argon travels around the collet and out the diffuser holes. Is the flame coming out the side possibly caused by a heavier gas flow running down the groove in the collet and out one of the diffuser holes lined up with the slots? Would a gas lens help with this situation?Thanks,Mike
Reply:It would be helpful to know what unit you have...But regardless,What gas are you using? What is your polarity on your torch? When you are referring to "flame" are you talking about the arc?  Are you in AC or DC?  How far off the weld are you?  If you are too far it will dance around and appear to come off the side.  Can you post some pictures of your welds so we can see what is happening?  The Everlast regulators are in lpm.  Multiply by 2.1 to find cfh.  A setting of about 7 or 8 is plenty.  Tig doesn't typically require the same gas flow rate that MIG does unless there are some drafty conditions.Change out your cup and see if this situation continues.  I have seen a cracked cup do weird things.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:what kind of tung- size and grind are you using how long is your stick outtoo much gas flow will cause problems as can to littleidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:For tig, i use around 10cfh on steel. I'll bump it up around 15cfh or higher for stainless.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:You say your units of flow are cm, and you changed from 6 cm to 11 cm.What is cm?If you convert to cubic feet per hour (cfh) then as stated above, use around 10 to 15 cfh for most TIG applications.
Reply:If you are just learning, you probably want to try some steel closer to 1/8" untill you get the hang of manipulating the puddle. 20ga is very thin to be learning on. I'm also wondering if you might have contaminated the tungsten. A dirty tungsten will give you arc issues as well..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the fast response guys. I'm sorry I should have been more specific with my equipment and set up. I have a everlast pp256 and was using a 1/16 thorium tungsten with about a 3:1 taperThe gas flow I ment to say was lpm. The torch was DC negative and when I said flame I  was referring to the arc.I was using 20ga steel because that is all the clean steel i had at the time and I would say the arc length was between 1/8 and 1/4". The tungsten was about 1/4" out of the cup.The arc at 30 amps is pretty weak and I did not really have any trouble establishing a puddle just the arc changed to the side of the tungsten after I increased the gas flow. I could have contaminated the tungsten and resharpened the point a half dozen times total. If a tungsten is contaminated does sharpening clean it up? I was just thinking if the gas was a little heavier on one side of the cup it might create a easier path for the arc.Mike
Reply:"the arc length was between 1/8 and 1/4". "You'll want to try to reduce the arc length (electrode to work) to a minimum, generally the tighter the better provided you can hold it consistent, not dip into the puddle, and still get the filler in the puddle without hitting the tungsten.  Around 1/16" arc length is about the norm for manual TIG.  The diameter of the arc increases rapidy as arc length is increased, so energy density is lost, melting efficiency is lost, and arc wander becomes a problem.
Reply:when you go back to the 6 setting do you get good results ?
Reply:I reduced the gas flow, changed the tungsten and the results were better. I think i am really going to have to concentrate on reducing the arc length on the light gauge. Its going to be a real challenge to get down to 1/16" and keep the tungsten clean, i feel like my face is right down into the weld to be able to see what i am doing.Here are a couple of pics (front & back) of the first practice beads i did. the raised beads are with filler.mike Attached Images
Reply:When buying my own gas and learning to weld, I would keep the flow as low as I could while not generating porosity. Build your skill up, improve your consistency with arc length and travel speed, then once things start to come together, you can increase you gas flow as needed to give your welds better color. Bottom line, you can really blow through the GA$ when you're learning. Save the gas, and use the extra money to get yourself some nice clean metal to learn on. Congrats on the new machine!Oh, don't forget about postflow. The rule of thumb is about one second for every ten amps you weld with. Without adequate postflow you risk oxidizing your tungsten, adversely affecting its performance.