TIG puddle not symmetrical

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Well I picked up the torch again today and was laying some... well.. I dont want to call them "beads"  but we'll go with that name for now.I noticed myself actually paying attention to the shape and size of the puddle this time around, and quickly noticed that my puddles were forming really bizarre shapes.Kind of like this.I'm trying hard to not idolize the 'stack o dimes' look, but these are the only "good" welds I see online. I know it's really hard to diagnose something like this over the internet... but if anyone can think of things to look out for that would be helpful.I think I might invest in a little camera setup with a welding lens so I can show everyone in the world how inexperienced my TIG welding hands are. Thanks for any help you can lend a lowly welding noob,Luke
Reply:Take some pics of the welds and post em up on here so we can see them and make suggestions.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenI'm trying hard to not idolize the 'stack o dimes' look, but these are the only "good" welds I see online.
Reply:haha ooh boy. Let me grab my camera. I'll try to not be too embarrassed. They are truly hideous.
Reply:Bead shape has a lot to do with what you feed the seagull.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIBead shape has a lot to do with what you feed the seagull.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterAlright..You totally lost me with that...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIBead shape has a lot to do with what you feed the seagull.
Reply:It looks like you might be traveling to fast. What were your settings and size plate? Don't be ashamed to post. We all have to start somewhere.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:i dont  know what they r feeding it but it aint chewing it enough....
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenMe too! I'll be honest. I'm not sure why I'm even posting these. I need so much more practice it's not even funny. Anyway... flame suit on, here are the pics.I haven't picked up the torch for about a month... okay that's excuse #1 out of the way. I sure don't remember being THAT bad at TIG...
Reply:The middle bead looks a lot like what happens when someone is melting filler with the arc rather than the puddle and is just dropping filler on the plate."Help me fix my welds" 101... List all the info you can. Machine, (yes many of us know you have the Maxstar 150, but most probably don't, Machine settings and roughly where you are on the pedal, Material and thickness, Filler and filler size, gas and flow settings, Position (flat, horiz. vert, overhead)...Some of this may seem redundant, like listing that you are using 100% argon, working with mild steel, or using E70s filler, but you'd be surprised how many times something simple like this is part of the problem. Remember the more info we have , the better the answers and suggestions will be..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:OK here goes.I first want to mention that I had the garage doors open, which thinking about it now was probably a terrible idea... since I live near the water and there is always a steady breeze.Miller Maxstar 150 STL75A no pedal/amptrol1/16" 2% thoriated tungsten sharpened lengthwise with a small flat tip1/16" ER70S-2 rod1/8" steel sheet (drops from shearing) 15 CFH flow rate (gauge reads 20 CFH when no flow, and 15 CFH when flowing)Flat positionCold hands No pedalThe coupon had dirty stick welds on the back which doesn't help. I had to grind down some old shoddy TIG welds, so I am sure the steel wasn't really that 'clean' all the way through. I really need to grab some fresh steel and try again.I try to dip the puddle. I don't allow my filler rod to ball up. I have found that "set and go" (no pedal) is difficult when you have one coupon, because as the steel gets hotter, you need less heat, and then I feel like I'm hauling a** to keep up with the puddle diameter. (At least, that is how I understand it)
Reply:You really need to get a foot pedal.  The whole benefit to getting a decent tig machine is for the fact that you would have precise control of the amperage as your welding. You also need to use the 1 amp per .001 of thickness to get your initial amp setting then go from there, so 1/8" would equal 125 amps to start with. I think thats what your problem is, not enough amps to get the puddle to form a nice and round shape, then your adding filler cooling it off even more.
Reply:Pedal and more heat. Check.I have a hand amptrol I haven't tried out yet... might be time to give that a shot.Thank you for taking your time to post Jay O, I appreciate it. Same goes for everyone else.Oh yeah... and WAY MORE PRACTICE!
Reply:1/8 flat welds need 90-100 amps.  Take your time.  I weld roll cages with a pushbutton and the machine set at 90 amps, that's 1 5/8 1/8 wall mild steel.Syncrowave 350Coolmate 3Millermatic 251Spoolmatic 30A
Reply:n20junkie how wide a puddle do you aim for on 1/8" mild steel?Also, thank you for your help
Reply:Hey Taiden,You may not like or want to hear a bit of criticism, although it becomes necessary at times.You, like most of the youngsters/newbies who post on the forums trying to "figger" out what's wrong, simply never take sound advice when it's given. TIG seems to be the latest fad amongst the youngsters today because of TV crap. Those who WANT too learn TIG, dedicate the time & practice regularly, take a class, & do some homework for information regarding metals, thicknesses, gasses, & heat parameters. They take notes on their progression, mistakes, movement speed, arc distance, stickout, gas flow, tungsten type & dia., & settings(clean width/pre-post flow, etc.) that produce optimum results. Have you done any of the aforementioned? Probably not..... just a continuation of being lost.I would wager that if you spent as much time with the TIG torch in hand as you do on the computer, you may have been able to produce an acceptable weld bead to illustrate. Instead, you clearly indicate with your own words how little an effort you engage in.1) Quit making excuses....2) Learn the correct setup regarding your surroundings & eliminate probable issues....3) Take a class to, at least, learn some fundamentals....4) Your prep will determine your outcome. If you can't take the time to insure clean joints & weldments, your "seagull droppings" will remain....5) Before you post any pics of your "hideous" & "embarrasing" efforts, take a couple weeks of dedicated practice(20-30hrs) & see if any improvements may come to fruition. If not, seek other processes that may be easier for you.6) It's quite simple.... just ask yourself how bad do you want it?All the suggestions in the world will do you no good until you dicipline yourself. Nuff said...DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Thanks Denny, brutal yet honest. I appreciate that.
Reply:Hey Taiden,Glad to see you accept a bit of criticism. Just so you can have a bit of comprehension of the welding arena's vastness, munch on this. I will be 67 next week, been welding (47) years in every process, & a couple not common, and I STILL AM LEARNING!   Know why.... it's in my blood.... the passion never diminished. I weld EVERY DAY except Sunday.Now.... How bad do you want it?DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Denny,Knowledge is power.I admit I am a young whippersnapper, but ambition for knowledge is the pursuit of power. I'm trying to figure out how I can get access to the schools' welding lab during the winter. I just want to run beads all winter long. I am so turned off by my garage in the winter, I tend to do as you said... stay inside on the computer. Right now I have a huge time conflict with my classes and the welding courses. I just finished a stick welding class and want more.I am going to go in on Monday and talk to the director of the school of welding at my CC. I want to see if we can work a deal where I come in and hide in the corner on their beautiful little Dynasty 200DX multiple times a week. I don't want other classes to get in the way of my welding, but I also don't want my welding to get in the way of my classes. Life always seems to always be about a balance...Again, thank you. Without your post, I might not have just sent the director a primer email for when I politely bust down his door on Monday.
Reply:Normally they are probably 1/4 of an inch wide without measuring one, im on the road.  At your point, colder is better. Slow things down with less amps and work on the fundamentals.  Start with 90 and establish a puddle and add a tiny bit of filler to the edge, back off the amps for whatever barley maintains the puddle and slowly move your torch 1/32 of and inch, wait a second and add filler, move 1/32, wait a second and then dab filler.   Keep moving like this, slow deliberate movements.  People try to just run too fast, and don't watch that puddle.  Watch it flow in and the gap will absorb the base, then you add filler and move.  This isn't the way you will do it when you get better, but you have to start somewhere or you will learn bad habits. It's better to weld colder, and wait for the puddle to move, than it is to fry it and add filler to a sagging edge thats overheated.  No more than 90 amps and slow, very slow.  If it makes you feel better, i have yet to see proper tig welding on any tv show yet to date.  The discovery biker build off has everyone wanting to tig weld and buy plasma torches.  I like the increase in fellow welders, but wish someone would do a true honest series on welding.If you were clear to me taiden i would give you full access to my shop to practice because all you need is about an hour of instruction and a pile of metal and practice.Syncrowave 350Coolmate 3Millermatic 251Spoolmatic 30A
Reply:TaidenMaybe in the spring if you can get to Mass...I will straighten you out...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:n20junkie and zapster thank you *SO* much for your offers. your kindness will not be forgotten.Now I know I need to find a way to comfortably practice until Spring.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterTaidenMaybe in the spring if you can get to Mass...I will straighten you out...zap!Taiden,You will get tig, it just takes time to learn. Theres alot to grasp all at once. Keeping a tight arc length, right speed, correct torch angle, correct travel speed, keeping your filler hand up to speed to keep feeding the rod. It all comes down to seat time. With that machine you got its plently to learn tig from and get it down good. If i were you i would be out in that garage cold or not running bead after bead (thats how i learned). If you keep practing you will start to get it down. Post your results often here to get tips on how you can improve. Just get out there and lay some beads with it.ShaneYa gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneZap,Do you still host them classes you used to do?
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWell...I would prefer to do this on a one on one basis from now on..It's much easier to do it this way because seat time is key and with 6-8 guys wanting time..It's much easier this way.If you want some time let me know....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneNo i don't need the time(well practice never hurts anyone), i have my own machines. I just rember back in the day on this forum it seemed like everyone had open houses that members could attend.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI had a good time back then but things change..I am getting too old to keep an eye on everyone.....zap!
Reply:I got some good news for me. I talked to the head of the welding department, and my current teacher (he's AWESOME)... I got permission to come in during my teacher's night classes and run their Dynasty 200DX all winter as long as I bring my own cups and tungsten.So now I can really get some practice in without complaining about frozen fingers.
Reply:Thats great news!!!. What do you go to collage for?Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:My college career has been a crazy effin roller coaster. The short answer is, right now I'm taking random courses I like at the local CC and I will be transferring into a university to see how I feel about Mechanical Engineering. (again )Historically, I have a really hard time working towards goals. Things are changing, and I'm hoping I have what it takes to do it right this time.Being able to run a TIG torch well enough (on the materials/joints im interested in) for experienced weldors to call me somewhere between "good" and "great" is one of themLast edited by Taiden; 12-14-2010 at 10:38 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenMy college career has been a crazy effin roller coaster. The short answer is, right now I'm taking random courses I like at the local CC and I will be transferring into a university to see how I feel about Mechanical Engineering. (again )Historically, I have a really hard time working towards goals. Things are changing, and I'm hoping I have what it takes to do it right this time.Being able to run a TIG torch well enough (on the materials/joints im interested in) for experienced weldors to call me somewhere between "good" and "great" is one of them
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneMy vote goes to become a weldor Although their is nothing wrong with getting more education. I choose not to go your route, but i guess i could always go to get more schooling if i wanted. I would rather be out their building rather then in the office designing
Reply:Yea. Thats the probelm unless you stick to it, you can get into big trouble with student loans. I had a buddy that went to collage for civil engineering and he only lasted a year and couldn't take it anymore so he dropped out. His parents were paying for it so he got lucky at that part. He ended up learning carpentry on the job and is doing good now. He loves it. I look at it as it dosnt matter how much $$$ you make, it matters how much you like what your doing.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneHe ended up learning carpentry on the job and is doing good now. He loves it. I look at it as it dosnt matter how much $$$ you make, it matters how much you like what your doing.
Reply:I would love to work at IDEO
Reply:Here is a picture of me messing around at school on the Dynasty 200DX.Beads were prettier but I dunked the coupon in water.Here is a link to a high res version of the picturehttp://img828.imageshack.us/img828/8533/weldbeads.jpg
Reply:Looks good. Now start some fillet welds. What was your settings/ filler size/ material thickness?Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:DCEN, 170A max, it's 5/16" plate. I believe there was no pulsing or any of that on, but it was my first time using a dynasty so I'm not really sure. I couldn't see or hear any distinct frequencies or pulsing.1/16" ER70S-2 and the electrode in the torch was large. It's possible it was a 1/8" but I think it was 3/32" red. #5 cup.I pretty much just picked up the torch that someone had left there, cleaned up the electrode, and picked up some wire and went for it. That plate was my first try since the last (embarrassing) picture I posted.By the way Shane, the pedal was AMAZING! So much easier I thought. If I found the puddle was heating up too fast for me I could back it off just a smidge. It was amazing to me how big a difference a few amps can make.The pedal also made it a lot easier for me to fill the crater. Still practicing though...and HF start was a dream. The ThermalArc I was trying that I told you about was startling and unpredictable (to me anyway). The Dynasty was great.
Reply:if you recall any of my poor-looking welds, it took me a full school year to tig  WITH a S250 w/ EVERY bell and whistle($6500 machine)Now I've got to weld with a 150stl bare bones like you, with scratch start.. Makes you a much better welder.I say keep practicing with your own machine. I can't imagine how good I'd be now if I had used my STL for an academic year.Young punk's welds in question:(316L .065 w/ 3/32 tung @ 45A)piping is a bitch of itself, wait for that when trying to make stuff for the Impreza!
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeaif you recall any of my poor-looking welds, it took me a full school year to tig  WITH a S250 w/ EVERY bell and whistle($6500 machine)Now I've got to weld with a 150stl bare bones like you, with scratch start.. Makes you a much better welder.I say keep practicing with your own machine. I can't imagine how good I'd be now if I had used my STL for an academic year.Young punk's welds in question:(316L .065 w/ 3/32 tung @ 45A)piping is a bitch of itself, wait for that when trying to make stuff for the Impreza!
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenThe ThermalArc I was trying that I told you about was startling and unpredictable (to me anyway). The Dynasty was great.
Reply:Originally Posted by zipzitthis comment threw me.  I thought I was the only guy with a ThermalArc who suffers from unpredictable starts... I have a Thermal Arc 150.. what is your machine?--zip.
Reply:Taiden not sure if anyone mentioned it, but check your gas flow. Sometimes if I don't have enough gas flowing, or the puddle is blowing away, I get those "cornflake" looking welds and the pinholes. Another indicator is a cloudy or sooty looking tungsten.
Reply:Taiden,Heres a few base plates i tigged on with your same machine. 1/8 tubing to 3/16'' flange. Maxstar maxed out at 150 amps on 230v. Is that still your first bottle of gas? Could of gottten a bad bottle. I usually get that ''cornflake'' if somthing is dirty or im runnig waaay to hott.ShaneYa gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Hey Shane, if you remember I was having that same issue with my harbor freight scratch setup. Looks like I'm having the same issue with my Maxstar. When I TIG at school on the Dynasty I don't have that issue. I am on my second bottle but I'm wondering if the quality of the gas at my local welding supply is bad, or maybe they don't take as much care when filling the smaller bottles. I might have to have a chat with them.I've always had a hunch that my gas was off but I try to keep blame off the equipment.At school I use the same Miller 17 style torch with a #5 cup and ~17 CFM of flow.I'm wondering if people run their bottes into the ground and allow a little air to get in. On the larger bottles it would make for less contamination. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........Last edited by Taiden; 12-27-2010 at 11:50 AM.
Reply:Is your filler rod dirty?Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:To be honest I don't clean it, but I take care to leave it in the tube as long as possible and only pull rod out when I need it.Should I give it a wipedown with acetone before use?At school my teacher just snags from the tube and goes.