TIG makes lungs burn

admin

Sorry guys I'm sure this is a major repost but just needed to ask.  Whenever I use a TIG welder about 20 mins later of welding my lungs start to burn.  I'm not sure how to explain the pain because I'm young and have never had any health problems.. it's just kinda a tight pressure feel and when I breathe in deep it hurts like a bitch.. I also kinda lose my breathe.  Anyways once done welding it will last probably anywhere from half an hour to an hour.  The weird thing is no other kind of welding does this.  I'm sure other guys have had this problem?  Also any good gas masks I should look into?Thanks and sorry for the noob question
Reply:Argon is heavier than air so once it gets in your lungs it doesn't like to come out. That doesn't really burn though. Are you welding galvanized?Miller Dynasty 700Miller Dynasty 200Miller 350pMiller 252Hobart Handler 187Lincoln Weld pack 180Victor O/AHypertherm 1250Hobart Airforce 500IPractical cnc
Reply:Originally Posted by fire1hawkArgon is heavier than air so once it gets in your lungs it doesn't like to come out. That doesn't really burn though. Are you welding galvanized?
Reply:What are you cleaning it with?Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:You aren't using BRAKE CLEANER are you?!?More ventilation, & don't keep your face so close maybe?Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:stop tig welding...i'm not joking...
Reply:Tig welding produces Ozone and to some people it can cause irritation to the lining of the throat and lungs.  It is not that ozone is really bad for you but that too much ozone is not good just as too much water can drown you. Some people like to get really close to the tig weld to see the puddle and get that perfect weld. I found that I need to step back just a bit from the weld to avoid inhaling the ozone created when tigging That solved the problem for me. YMMV.
Reply:your not supposed to suck on the cup
Reply:are you welding anodized aluminum ?I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Stop until you get protected.North company makes a mask and they sell it through Grainger supply. It is about $6.and is made for welding fumes.It is easy to breath through and the filters do not touch your face.What is bothering you is the ozone from the welding process.(argon+ultraviolet light+ozone)OR it is a contaminant on the metal. Andy machining oils can make phosgene gas above 130ºF.Aluminum welding has more hazards than steel or stainless steel. But they all have hazards.You need to wear a mask and get used to it.There are some doctors that know about industrial issues but they are far and few between.Most of them have never even been in a modern factory.I have seen factories where they do ultrasonic welding of plastics and the noise is unbelievable high pitch.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Stop until you get protected.North company makes a mask and they sell it through Granger supply. It is about $6.and is made FOR welding fumes. What makes it different is it is easy to breath through, and the filters do not touch your face.What is bothering you is the ozone from the welding process.(argon+ultraviolet light+ozone)OR it is a contaminant on the metal. Any machining oils can make phosgene gas above 130ºF.Do not try to weld through ANODIZING.Aluminum welding has more hazards than steel or stainless steel. But they all have hazards.You need to wear a mask and get used to it.There are some doctors that know about industrial issues but they are far and few between.Most of them have never even been in a modern factory.I have seen factories where they do ultrasonic welding of plastics and the noise is unbelievable high pitch.Here you go...Very comfortable mask to wear. I wore one for 11 years this style. $11.32 NORTH #7190http://www.saf-t-glove.com/product.cfm/29562/Last edited by Donald Branscom; 01-11-2011 at 03:56 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Donald,Did you and Billy Mac go to school together?I know you're no kid, but some of your comments remind me of the Art Linkletter show, "Kids Say the Dangest Things".If you think any $6 mask is going to "protect" you from ozone you've definitely been breathing something besides ozone.If you think welding aluminum has more hazards than welding Stainless Steel, then I just don't know what to tell you, other than OSHA would not agree.The "Don't weld thru anodized" comment is more of your pure BS.  Done every day in the fabrication of marine structures (without additional breathing protection I may add).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:ozone is similar to chlorine in its corrosive effects on lungs. it is used among other things as a disinfectant in sewage treatment  in large contact tanks.
Reply:Yeah. ozone has a molecular weight of 48 daltons...no filter will stop that (and allow you to still breath O2 @ 32 daltons). To put it in perspective, Dialysis membranes have a molecular cutoffs around ~5 KDa. Activated charcoal probably will absorb it, but I don't know any (cheap) respiratory filters like that. Please chime in if I am wrong though!!
Reply:To narrow down the search for a cheap mask designed to deal with ozone.Google up "3m 8214 respirator".Here is the company page.http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...gl2DQMZ2HJ51bl
Reply:I had the same problem when I was TIGing a lot of aluminum.  I couldn't lay on my stomach because it hurt to breathe.  But then again, I get up close and personal when I weld so I was no doubt breathing in a lot of harmful stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDonald,Did you and Billy Mac go to school together?I know you're no kid, but some of your comments remind me of the Art Linkletter show, "Kids Say the Dangest Things".If you think any $6 mask is going to "protect" you from ozone you've definitely been breathing something besides ozone.If you think welding aluminum has more hazards than welding Stainless Steel, then I just don't know what to tell you, other than OSHA would not agree.
Reply:Originally Posted by quasiyour not supposed to suck on the cup
Reply:I guess I agree with the ozone posts.All welding & cutting generate some metal fumes (different from smoke). So I assume it's not the fume thing. Some processes more than others.I also use the N99 type North 7190 masks but they are not approved for metal fumes, volatiles or vapors. The N99 designation just means filtration to very fine particle size (read virus size), fumes are another matter.Matt
Reply:when he asked about the break cleaner it is due to the fact that it can decompose into very very very dangerous phospogen gas and some others as well when subjected to high temperatures where even as few as a couple  ppm will kill you i do believe there is a sticky on one of the forums on this subject. It amazes me that so few welders know of this and a lot of them have years and years of experience.After the arc has died the weld remains
Reply:as has been said, the heat causes the phosgene. i have seen demolition crews who came on site to cut up old chillers..tough to explain to them they couldnt go to work(cutting torches)because the refrigerant was still in the machine.. i'm sure many jobs  they were not stopped and cooked up quite a batch of phosgene..some of these guys looked real green and sick......
Reply:I don't tig but I do work with some rather unpleasant gases namely HCn (aka zyklon B) among several others.  A good set of lungs is a terrible thing to waste and a good respirator is significantly cheaper than "" In 2007, the average cost for a single-lung transplant was nearly $400,000, according to the online resource Transplant Living. The average cost for a double-lung transplant, in which both of the patient's original lungs are replaced with donor lungs, was about $550,000"""Another idea that I have not seen mentioned yet, but works for me with stick and mig in my booth, 4 inch fan from HF with a spring clamp (re-purposed cheapo ground clamp - the HF clamp sucks) at head level pointed ACROSS the booth. Keep it above your work so it does not interfere with shielding gas.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDonald,Did you and Billy Mac go to school together?I know you're no kid, but some of your comments remind me of the Art Linkletter show, "Kids Say the Dangest Things".If you think any $6 mask is going to "protect" you from ozone you've definitely been breathing something besides ozone.If you think welding aluminum has more hazards than welding Stainless Steel, then I just don't know what to tell you, other than OSHA would not agree.The "Don't weld thru anodized" comment is more of your pure BS.  Done every day in the fabrication of marine structures (without additional breathing protection I may add).
Reply:Originally Posted by phyisisist777Yeah. ozone has a molecular weight of 48 daltons...no filter will stop that (and allow you to still breath O2 @ 32 daltons). To put it in perspective, Dialysis membranes have a molecular cutoffs around ~5 KDa. Activated charcoal probably will absorb it, but I don't know any (cheap) respiratory filters like that. Please chime in if I am wrong though!!
Reply:Originally Posted by StevefromOhioTig welding produces Ozone and to some people it can cause irritation to the lining of the throat and lungs.  It is not that ozone is really bad for you but that too much ozone is not good just as too much water can drown you. Some people like to get really close to the tig weld to see the puddle and get that perfect weld. I found that I need to step back just a bit from the weld to avoid inhaling the ozone created when tigging That solved the problem for me. YMMV.Originally Posted by Boilermaker687Agreed this is not a good thing it will cause you to not being able to breath at all lolZac I would say check your gas flow you maybe pushing too much of it out and breathing it in especially if you are putting your face real close to your work while welding it.I catch myself doing the same but I dont have much gas flow at all and I keep my cup close to the bead also to force what bit of gas flow I have directly on the area its intended for I have never had any issues with my lungs caused by welding aluminum that is and have welded a but load of it in my time.Aluminum if a very porous metal I am not sure although I could be wrong that brake fluid should be used at all to clean it, they make a cleaner especially designed for cleaning aluminum if it is needed I generally just use a wire brush to scrub off the scale that grows or forms on aluminum and weld it up.Again I hope I haven't upset any of you whom I have quoted here the intention was not to upset but to put forward my views on this topic and differences in my thoughts on the matter at hand
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonTo narrow down the search for a cheap mask designed to deal with ozone.Google up "3m 8214 respirator".Here is the company page.http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...gl2DQMZ2HJ51bl
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomLooks like a good mask SHOVELON, but Those paper type filters feel very scratchy on your face.At least they do to me. That is why I like the pancake type mask that does not touch your face.
Reply:some aluminum castings may be porous,but bar,sheet and tubing is not. it'd be kind of tough to make beverage cans and aluminum foil out of porous stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomI would like to chime in.Go to this link and you will see many of the masks some in expensive for protection with different welding fumes. Some are low cost.http://www.westernsafety.com/north20...hres09pg5.htmlThere is one paper filter mask with an orange button on the front JUST FOR OZONE protection and it is low cost.I am sure you can get a complete catalogue of all masks available by NORTH or 3M company just by making a request.BTW you have misspelled physicist.
Reply:Originally Posted by boatbuoysome aluminum castings may be porous,but bar,sheet and tubing is not. it'd be kind of tough to make beverage cans and aluminum foil out of porous stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanActually, that particular mask has a foam faceseal, so the paper is off of your face.
Reply:Originally Posted by phyisisist777Good deal!  I stand corrected.The orange button must be an activated carbon disk of sorts. Good to know an affordable option exists.I am aware I spelled physicist wrong. It is much easier to type as I spelled it.I actually did my undergraduate thesis and dissertation on a bio-physics principle I discovered. The thesis was titled, "Microfluidic cell sorting via preferential charge-based acceleration: A specific application of the Method of Images solution to Poissons equation".I am currently working on something really fun for my PhD...but if I told you I would have to kill you.
Reply:beverage cans are coated to prevent chemical reactions between the aluminum and the contents. the same applies to aluminum cans used for food products. the only references i can find to porosity using google apply to castings .
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomSounds interesting Physicist777. Tell us a little about the images solution to poisons.IS it a chemical test  or is it some type of digital image or spectometric process?"Microfluidic cell sorting via preferential charge-based acceleration" Can you simplify that at all for us? What kind of cells?  Did I just put a contract out on myself? LOL
Reply:Ok so I guess Boatbuoy me and you have came to stale mate as I also cannot find any proof on the internet but I will keep looking for the answers as it does interest me if I was taught correct or notBoilermakers local 687looking for a place to put your website try this site out www.buzzhostingservices.comenter this promotional code in and get 50% off for life on our ratescode: Boilermakers
Reply:ok---truce.
Reply:I have also experienced this when my face was too close to the weld and that is with Mig welding. Like others have said, back off a little. I sometimes use a particle mask but that is because I am grinding something and dont take it off between.
Reply:Originally Posted by WeldingMachineYou aren't using BRAKE CLEANER are you?!?More ventilation, & don't keep your face so close maybe?
Reply:Originally Posted by fire1hawkArgon is heavier than air so once it gets in your lungs it doesn't like to come out. That doesn't really burn though. Are you welding galvanized?
Reply:I am surprised nobody has mentioned a fresh air mask.  Then there are no concerns about how well the toxins are filtered or which ones are at play here.  The systems aren't cheap although I suspect someone could save a few dollars by just buying the mask and making their own fresh air pump and filter box.Most people only get one set of lungs...
Reply:Originally Posted by himsa169so in other words he is saying after you tig weld get to the nearest jungle gym and hang upside down until all the argon sinks out your mouth you will be alright       no but seriously would that actually help Physicist777 i know you have a answer for me