1/8" tube with 110v for utility trailer?

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Hey guys, first post here...  I've just come across an 110v 80 amp welder for pennies and looking at putting together a small utility trailer made out of 1/8" tube that I've got laying around.  I'm getting some rough feedback on these 110v units but after a few practice passes, seem to be getting very good penetration with this little welder.  What might I be missing?  If I'm penetrating well, what do I also need to be watching for?Thanks...
Reply:What else to look for?Is this a trailer for on the road, or around the yard?"Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:An 80 amp 110v machine isn't getting "good" penetration despite what it might look like. Small migs are notorious for makeing pretty beads that simply don't hold up to real tests. The bond between the base metal and the weld material is almost certainly cold. That means if you tested the weld, the weld would fail and crack where the two meet. Thats the big issue with small 110v machines, especially the low amp inexpensive ones. They lack the power to heat up the base metal enough to do quality welds in many cases. You'd need at least a 130-140 amp class machine to have enough heat, and even then you wouldn't get that for very long before you ran into the duty cycle and weld quality dropped off. A better choice would be a 220v machine with power to spare for doing 1/8" material..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If you are talking about building any type of trailer for over-the-road usage with any 110V machine, prepare to get a lot of derisive comments.You say you are "getting very good penetration with this little welder." How, exactly, are you determining this? What destructive or non-destructive methods are you testing with? What sort of training have you had to recognize what "good penetration" is?Also, you talk only about the penetration achieved. What about depth of fusion, bead contour, or the myriad other qualities that determine whether a weld is truly sound for the service intended?Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:Thanks for the quick responses...Razer- I think you're asking a question rather than making a statement?  I've actually got three things in mind- First, a smaller quad trailer for hauling moose, caribou, firewood, camping supplies, kids, etc.  Second, a flatbed for my pickup, and third, a utility trailer for hauling trash, wood, and water (200 gallons= 1600#).  I'm gonna bring some 1x1 1/8" angle in tomorrow and make the quad trailer frame, just to test this HF MIG unit out s'more, but from what I've already seen, it's doing a 'good job' with a few repairs I made to an existing utility trailer.  But...  DSW- good stuff to know.  Thanks.  Same thoughts but I like your words better I've got access to a Miller up at my brother-in-laws place, but simply don't have 220v at mine.  Maybe the better idea would be to tack up the trailer frame and then haul it up to his place for the final weld job?  I got such a good deal I couldn't pass on this little MIG, but now the light's coming on and I'm not so sure I wanna rely on it.  Thanks again...Questions for you guys: what's a good way to test your welds?  Back in the day we had to cut n peak or bend them or pound on them to look for fractures...  Suggestions?
Reply:If the question is will it weld 1/8 wall tube,It'll weld 1/8" tube just fine if the operator knows what he is doing.
Reply:Genius- thanks for the warning about the warnings...  I'm ready for 'em I first determined penetration because I melted through the metal when I first turned it up and adjusted the settings, but also by observing the edge of the joint (90 degree butt joint?).  But my final test was a 5# sledge properly applied and then a trailer loaded with a cord of wood that didn't make the repaired joint fail over 55 mph frost heaves...  I don't have the grammar box to pull from when you're talking weld specs, but I do appreciate your info and would definitely be open to cutting, testing, etc these welds according to your liking...  thanks man...
Reply:do your self a favor, sell the little mig and go buy a 220v machine...the old lincoln buzz boxes go for dirt cheap on craigslist nowadays....they will weld up just about any size trailer....that little mig isn't gonna do the job...
Reply:Originally Posted by dualsport... I've actually got three things in mind- First, a smaller quad trailer for hauling moose, caribou, firewood, camping supplies, kids, etc.  Second, a flatbed for my pickup, and third, a utility trailer for hauling trash, wood, and water (200 gallons= 1600#).  ....Questions for you guys: what's a good way to test your welds?  Back in the day we had to cut n peak or bend them or pound on them to look for fractures...  Suggestions?
Reply:I bench 300 lbs, ride really fast cool motorcycles, kill really big scary animals, eat um, hang 'em on the wall of the log house I built with these two hands.  And I'm a nice guy and... And people like me...  There... I feel better about myself again.Can I have my balls back please?   I've often been the guy who didn't know what he was doing, but my posture was one of learning and finishing well.  So before you take me behind the wood pile and separate me from 'those who really can', give me a second to catch up- I really do appreciate your knowledge base you share from...  Respect goes both ways man... Both ways.I am going to still build a trailer.  But not with a 110v.  Well, kinda with one.  First I'm gonna gather all my scrap and practice- a lot.  And then I'm gonna tack the frame together (with a 110v Harbor Freakin Freight when I got time at work).  Then I'm gonna haul it to where I've got access to 220 and finish it with a good quality Miller.  Then I'm gonna use the thing, and inspect and maintain it- just like I do all my equipment...
Reply:Good luck Dualsport.  I know that men from the "Banks" are Americans not Americants!.  Go for it you got a plan Originally Posted by dualsportI bench 300 lbs, ride really fast cool motorcycles, kill really big scary animals, eat um, hang 'em on the wall of the log house I built with these two hands.  And I'm a nice guy and... And people like me...  There... I feel better about myself again.Can I have my balls back please?   I've often been the guy who didn't know what he was doing, but my posture was one of learning and finishing well.  So before you take me behind the wood pile and separate me from 'those who really can', give me a second to catch up- I really do appreciate your knowledge base you share from...  Respect goes both ways man... Both ways.I am going to still build a trailer.  But not with a 110v.  Well, kinda with one.  First I'm gonna gather all my scrap and practice- a lot.  And then I'm gonna tack the frame together (with a 110v Harbor Freakin Freight when I got time at work).  Then I'm gonna haul it to where I've got access to 220 and finish it with a good quality Miller.  Then I'm gonna use the thing, and inspect and maintain it- just like I do all my equipment...
Reply:Originally Posted by dualsportI'm gonna haul it to where I've got access to 220 and finish it with a good quality Miller.
Reply:There is a youtube vid of how to weld 1/2" plate together with a 90amp welder. I can't find it right now.Lets say you want butt 1/2" to 1/2". Then you would grind down both butt ends to a 45% angle and join the tips together. Then weld into the valley with multble passes to fill the valley in.If your doing a T joint. The you would grind off to a 45% angle the piece being welded. And fill in the gap with multible passes.How you would stop it from deforming is not with in my training level. I guess clamp the crap out of it.hope this helps.ThermalArc 161STL TIG/Stick (160amp)Lincoln weld-pak 100 (fluxcore)4X6 Enco bandsaw10" skillsaw with metal blade for 45degrees (works)4" grinderWeld for fun. Very rare I do it for Money.
Reply:A really good visual inspection by trained eyes is worth a lot, but the bottom line would be the testing methods already mentioned. These tests will shed light on any and all defects. If you were to start with the 4 x 4 trailer, you will at least find out what your machine can do, and how your fabricating ideas pan out. When you hunt big game, do you use a .22 caliber rifle? Prolly not.  Same with steel, you need enough available amps to melt a good sized puddle and control it consistently throughout the project. I have a very clean Lincoln mig welder that is rated at 135 amps. It would do a very nice job on hanging license plate frames, light brackets, etc., but for the structural portions, I would use a higher rated mig machine, or a good, basic, stick welder.  Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:If you want a cheap road worthy trailer and have a cheap low amp 120 volt  welder consider this.  Harbor Freight sells a small trailer, its a bolt together kit.  Bolt it together, then get a welder like a Hobart or Miller 135 or 140 amp MIG if all you have is 120 volt or if you have 230 volt a stick welder. Grind off the paint, or before bolting the trailer grind off the paint and weld it up.My guess you can't buy the steel, wiring , lights and wheels for the price they are selling for at Harbor Freight.Last edited by wmgeorge; 07-02-2011 at 12:19 PM.Retired - Refrigeration Pipefitter - Master Electrician-  IowaLots of Hobbys
Reply:Dont do it.Its the number of watts put into the weld that counts,120vx90a =10800 watts 240v x100 a =21600 watts.My garden cart is made of 1/8 stock.A 240 v welder will put twice the heat into a joint..
Reply:Originally Posted by FunnyDreamThere is a youtube vid of how to weld 1/2" plate together with a 90amp welder. I can't find it right now.Lets say you want butt 1/2" to 1/2". Then you would grind down both butt ends to a 45% angle and join the tips together. Then weld into the valley with multble passes to fill the valley in.If your doing a T joint. The you would grind off to a 45% angle the piece being welded. And fill in the gap with multible passes.How you would stop it from deforming is not with in my training level. I guess clamp the crap out of it.hope this helps.
Reply:.How did it turn out?.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverA really good visual inspection by trained eyes is worth a lot, but the bottom line would be the testing methods already mentioned. These tests will shed light on any and all defects. If you were to start with the 4 x 4 trailer, you will at least find out what your machine can do, and how your fabricating ideas pan out. When you hunt big game, do you use a .22 caliber rifle? Prolly not.  Same with steel, you need enough available amps to melt a good sized puddle and control it consistently throughout the project. I have a very clean Lincoln mig welder that is rated at 135 amps. It would do a very nice job on hanging license plate frames, light brackets, etc., but for the structural portions, I would use a higher rated mig machine, or a good, basic, stick welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by dualsportI've got access to a Miller up at my brother-in-laws place, but simply don't have 220v at mine.  Maybe the better idea ...  Suggestions?
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyExplain just why you don't have 220v. If you are hooked up to electrical service, you do have 220v available. Either run an extension cord from whatever sufficient 220v outlet you may have or wire in a 220v run from your service panel. Whenever I hear that 220v isn't available to leads me to wonder just how much the poster has looked into the problem in the first place.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammer"I don't have 220v available" just means they don't have a plug close enough to do them any good. A lot of people aren't comfortable adding outlets. or with the cost of having someone else do it.
Reply:>>you can wire up a 220 outlet<<I did mine, on a 40 Amp double breaker, for my TIG welder (Inverter machine, low draw), and it works great (and my house is still standing).I had a thread on this site, getting advice; I followed the advice I received and it all worked out.Now I feel confident to move on to my next major project, putting a ceiling fan in our bathroom.Bring it on.Working on cars and bikes is my hobby, learning to weld the pieces together is my quest.
Reply:Many guys on this forum could make a great 1/8" square tubing trailer with a 110v welder.  Then again, a good surgeon could do open heart surgery with a paring knife.  If you have to ask if it will work, then it's probably safe to say that you don't have the skills needed to make it a safe bet.  And an unsafe trailer puts a lot of people at risk.Put another way, a good weld has a LITTLE to do with the quality of the welding machine, and a LOT to do with the skill and experience of the person operating that machine.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Originally Posted by Jack OlsenMany guys on this forum could make a great 1/8" square tubing trailer with a 110v welder.  Then again, a good surgeon could do open heart surgery with a paring knife.  If you have to ask if it will work, then it's probably safe to say that you don't have the skills needed to make it a safe bet.  And an unsafe trailer puts a lot of people at risk.Put another way, a good weld has a LITTLE to do with the quality of the welding machine, and a LOT to do with the skill and experience of the person operating that machine.The advice given on this board has always been top notch, you asked in the right place. Please heed the asnwers you got. These guys, DSW , Zap, Jack Olsen et all, know what they are talking about, these folks are tops in their field. Search some of their posts and check out the amazing quality works they do if you have any doubts. The little hf 90 is one bare bones machine and it wont do what your looking to do, the one I have does not feature a rectifier nor does it contain an inductor, the pulse width modulator for the wire speed control of the feed motor burned out within a week or two of initial purchase and I got the unit for free, used a cordless drill trigger and a carriage bolt to replace it. Its an ac machine, wire feeders dont work that way , they are dc of either polarity depending upon the job and the wire. With that in mind, here me now and believe me later, that welder is ok for light light work on sheet metal but not for anything that will hold more weight than a pitcher of beer ...........Mikeps, like many have mentioned a stick welder will do way better and the ac buzzboxes are cheap. DC is way easier , but costs more than Ac, and both are cheaper than the mig machine you need to build trailers.
Reply:before I get called on it, let me clarify, the power transformer has no rectifier on it, the little speed controller board did , but the overheating and the run on when releasing the trigger prolly burnt the underbuilt lil guy out, and I mightad that the weld current is not switched by the trigger on the gun, its always flowing elctrons........back and forth at 60 cycles, not right , it just aint right,  like someone said the other day, face palm....maybe twice.sorry for any twyposmlm
Reply:.Doesn't that statement sort of damage your credibility? Originally Posted by allfluxedupps, like many have mentioned a stick welder will do way better and the ac buzzboxes are cheap. DC is way easier , but costs more than Ac, and both are cheaper than the mig machine you need to build trailers.
Reply:.My apologies, as I think I read your post wrong.I thought you were saying that you need a MIG machine to build trailers.  It seems now after reading again that you meant the PROPER MIG machine would cost more than an AC / DC SMAW suitable unit.Cheers . . . . Originally Posted by JamesD.Doesn't that statement sort of damage your credibility?
Reply:I am not a fan of the 110 volt welders but if you are going to use them I would say that 1/8 is the high limit. I have had a Miller Sidekick in my arsenal since the Mid 80's and I did build a trailer from 1/8 tubing with it once but the trailer was about 4FT long by 3 Ft wide , just enough to haul a 500Lb Lincoln Weldanpower, point being not many critical joints. It did weld the 2" Coupler to the tounge just fine. That being said there is a certain amount of technique that should be used, like spacing of the joints for open root welds or a lot of beveling. Also it will help to run vertical up to get penetration.  Now when you think about it, a welder with more amperage that can just burn those joints in is a much better choice.     Now on the other hand if you want to do floors on a pick up cab, or zap in replacement panels the machines with their light guns and cables are a nice choice, And I don't mean with a flux core, Hard MIG.    Like above posts,   why take the knife to the gun fight?"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:As another poster mentioned the 2K capacity 4x8 trailer from HF tools that bolts together is a great option. I have one and hauled a ton of sand in it no with no issues.   at some point i'll weld it together too.  but its hard to even buy the metal to make it for what they can be picked up for.   I got mine lightly used with tongue jack and deck on it for $225.  Plus it already had the title and registration done.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:what if you used a different 110 machine for the 1/8" the original poster is welding?say one of the miller/hobart or lincoln 110v welders that are 140 amp?just someone trying to learn here, I have no idea how much better they would work
Reply:Originally Posted by hankhillwhat if you used a different 110 machine for the 1/8" the original poster is welding?say one of the miller/hobart or lincoln 110v welders that are 140 amp?just someone trying to learn here, I have no idea how much better they would work
Reply:i know I may be overly cautious, but as a personal preference, any job that requires more than 100 amps gets bumped from my mig to my stick welder. I like my ancient Miller buzz box better anyway, feels like the old ripped up levis or my torn up chuck conners. With the exception of the time factor its cheaper to stick weld too, ask my ex, I am one cheap s.o.b.