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I want to shore up my limited experience in welding to build a rat rod.  Would you ride in a car with a frame with welds that look look like this?These are all with 6013 and a Lincoln AC-225.Any any all advice welcome!This one is 1/8 mild steel 90 degrees, one pass with 6013 1/8 Attached Images
Reply:If you were to weld a car frame or anything critical with 6013 i would video the mess that will surely follow...Ride in it not on your life..or mineBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:On those welds? Yes. With 6013? Hell no...
Reply:I'm guessing I should pick up some 7018AC?
Reply:Welcome to the forum. Need some better pics, looks concave with undercut in this photo.  Fairly consistent though.Show some pics of vertical up and overhead welds too.I saw a t-bucket frame that was stick welded and then painted - it was just the frame and welds were already cracking from being moved around.  Make sure you know what you are doing.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Thanks for your comments.  That first pic is not so good, its actually a 90 degree outside corner but it's not very clear.  Here's a few more of the same 1/8 inch pieces being welded with 7018AC 1/8.  I ran one corner at 90 amps and the other at 105.  I actually had trouble with arc going out at 90 and 105 looks like maybe it was a bit hot.  What do you think? Attached Images
Reply:Not bad...Keep it up and you will get thereBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:105 amps should be near the bottom of the range for 1/8" 7018 AC rods.It probably seems hot because you are trying to weld 1/8" material with 1/8" rods.  This is usually hard for a beginner.   Try 3/32 rods instead and you'll have more control.Amperages from Lincoln on their 7018AC rods:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...8AC/c21026.pdfTYPICAL OPERATING PROCEDURESCurrent (Amps)AC 3/32 rods 75-120 1/8 rods 105-150 5/32 rods 130-200DC+ 3/32 rods 70-115 1/8 rods 100-140 5/32 rods 120-185Looking good so far Dave J.Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 07-11-2013 at 11:35 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Thanks again for the tips.  I ran out of 1/8 inch coupons but I had some at 3/16.  1/8 inch rod went a little easier on that at 105A.Vertical up I'm still working on.  I'll post some later when I have a little more practice.What about 7014 rods?  They have the tensile of the 7018 without the moisture in storage issues, right?  As long as I prep all welds to insure penetration to the bottom would they be an alternative to the 7018 for this car frame application? Attached Images
Reply:That first pic looks cold to me.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Looking good for consistency.  Remember you need penetration too.  Bump your amps to your 120 tap and you'll notice it burns in better.Get used to higher amps, the rods run better and on inside corners you'll likely be at 120 amps.  Control puddle size by travel speed.7014 is a favorite of mine.  No storage issues and is a stronger rod than 6013.  Both are excellent for general use.  Both can be dragged on the plate.7018AC would be a better choice for a frame due to better ductility.  These are all in my opinion of course.I've included pics of two common AC225 models, I'm thinking yours is the top one.  Notice some taps are different.Dave J. Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:This electrode selection chart shows rod characteristics in relation to each other.  It's from AWS.7014 is very good, 7018 is a little better.Dave J. Attached ImagesDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Dave has got you covered..Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Yep, that's mine in the first pic.  All the stuff you sent is really helpful, thanks!Tried a bit more at vertical up with 7014 3/32 on some 3/16 plate.  I ended up at 60 amps after trying 75 for a bit.  I can kind of see the puddle but having no luck to find a rod angle and motion that gets that undercut under control. Attached Images
Reply:A LOT of people have trouble with 7014 in vertical so dont feel bad. Is this in a groove? Hard to tell from the pic.
Reply:7014 amp ranges:3/32 rod 80-1251/8 rod 110-165Try running stringers with no weave at 80-90 degrees.  (straight in or barely pointed up)  Stack them right next to each other on the same plate, aim for the edge of the one next to it for a half overlap, and do it over and over until it gets easy. Probably only take 2 - 3 hours Gives you cheap practice without wasting valuable plate.Dave J.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Yes, the last pic is an inside corner. And I will just try some vertical up on flat plate. Thanks again to all for your help!
Reply:Here's the first plate (3/16 mild steel) vertical up with one vertical down circled in red.  Used 6013 1/8 diameter just because I have a lot of it.  Started at 90 amps and rod almost perfect horizontal.  Seemed too cold so went to 105 amps but that seemed to really dig in.  Changed rod angle to 70 degrees (pointed slightly up) and worked my way in beads across the plate.Is it normal to get a narrower bead than you would get if welding flat?  What else do you suggest?As always, thanks for all you help! Attached Images
Reply:With vertical you need to be able to read the puddle. Timing patterns won't cut it.  You need to pause at the sides until the puddle catches up to the arc then quickly swing to the other side and pause for the puddle to catch up again. With stringers I often teach the students to just slightly wiggle the rod so they can see each side fill independently of each other. To show the puddle catch up to the arc, I run a super exaggerated weave so the student has time to watch the puddle move from side to side and really see when I stop and pause. The bead looks like he11, but the point is to show them what each end looks like. Then I speed up and shorten the side to side distance until it's just a wiggle and the pause is just for a fraction of a second.Vertical on flat plate almost always looks "bad" since there's no where for the material to go but down usually. Your welds on the last one aren't bad overall, but I  would want to see more consistency. If you could fill the plate with ones as consistent as the red and yellow circled ones, we'd move you on to vertical lap joints at the tech school. However note that while your red vertical down might look "pretty", for good penetrating welds with 7014/18 you want to do vertical up, not vertical down where you get no penetration and can trap slag..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You guyz do realize that this is "Introductions" right?Well not any more....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:OK.  Ran a few more small plates of vertical up stringers with 6013 1/8 rods.  Your advice to start watching the puddle helped with consistency a lot.  I went back to 90 amps holding the rod almost dead level.If I was going to move on the a lap joint what's the technique?  A single stringer bead is going to be too narrow isn't it?
Reply:Depend on material thickness. Usually with 3/8" thick material we have the students run 1 stringer for the root and two overlapping stringers to cover the root using 1/8" rods..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan