Brake drum forge build question.

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Due to the lack of iforgeiron at the moment, I have a question or two that I'm hoping you guys can help me with.Ok so I'm building a simple Brake drum forge. I'm putting $0 into this so everything needs to be found in the scrap/stock pile. I'm building it off or an old propain BBQ grill stand that was given to me. and I've got all the other materials needed for the most part. The only problem I've found do far is I don't have any plate to build the table top out of. but I do have some sheet metal approximately 16-14 ga. My question is, can I use cement board to act as a backer to the sheet metal for the table top? Just something to prevent the sheet metal from warping over time. instead of wasting metal building an extensive frame under the sheet metal.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:i dont see how the cement board will prevent any warping. i also wouldnt expect too much warping, and the warping wouldnt matter anyway..the table is where you store/stage some coal to put into the fire..
Reply:Cement board is mainly aimed at the ceramic tiles field in home construction and its attributes are mostly about being a waterproof, level base (underlayment) for placing tiles onto.It might work for you, though I too can't see how it could prevent warping of sheet metal when exposed to heat.If you want a truly robust surface material, I think fire brick would be more suitable than common cement board.
Reply:let me rephrase, to prevent excessive sagging. warping isn't an issue. basically. I don't want to build a lot of frame work under the sheet metal. I know cement board is used for wood stove heat sheilding so the heat factor isn't going to be an issue. just want something to cover the gap so the sheet metal doesn't sag to much over time. and as it's on hand, not metal, and will handle the heat I was wondering if it was a viable alternative to a steel framework.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Like walkerweld said, cement board is for tile work.Refractory board is used in wood stoves.Two totaly different things.
Reply:The table on my coal forge is maybe 14 ga, possibly 16 ga. It warped a bit when I had a massive fire that I raked out on to the table to break down the fire, but other than that it has been fine. I'd really need to see your idea to understand your question better, but I doubt it will sag much if you use basic common sense..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Meh, no skin of my back, just back to the drawing board. Nothing a little steel can't fix.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:some pictures of the one I made out of a old brake drum for the fire pot, and a old steel wheel and some sheet steel,  as one can see I had some budding blacks smiths that needed a forge,  (yes the one had very inappropriate foot wear on for the forge and was not near it when it was operational),It is my understanding that a forge should have a bed of gravel or cinders around the fire pot. so the steel is not really subject to the heat.the buffalo forge in the last picture had some concrete poured in it. I think it is still in the forge in the picture, I did take it out,  as my wifes grand fathers only had cinders in it,   I think one could use the cement board if you wanted to, if it does not work it did not cost muchI thinking around the out side edge of  fire pot not the bottom of the fire pot,the bottom of the new forge has not given them any problems that I am aware of,Last edited by Farmerboy; 07-16-2013 at 08:46 PM.
Reply:Great shot of the iron workers..Magazines have issues, everything else has problems
Reply:I made one a lot like Farmerboy's, except I used a steel car wheel. Used a torch to cut out the central maybe 6" or 7" diameter section of the wheel, then flipped that piece over and welded it back in place. That's the firepot. The 3" hole in the center of the wheel is where I welded a piece of 3" pipe for the air and tuyere. Welded some legs on the sides, and wala I've got a forge. Still haven't added the tabletop part yet,  but I haven't needed to make any really large fires yet. Seems to work well.
Reply:I haven't touched a forge in over 10 yrs so this will be starting slow. as it stands I'm building the forge and anvil on the cheap. All materials sourced at $0 cost. save gas to pick it up. The Anvil will be a hybrid vertical rail/horizontal rail track anvil. sunk into a 200+ lbs hunk of Ash. basically, I'll do a semi traditional "English" shaped anvil out of one section track and mount that on top of two sections of vertically placed track giving me more metal/weight under where I'll be hitting. The vertical sections will be alligned in such a manner as to be useable as hardies. We'll see how well it works out. I'll have to build tongs, and some punches and drifts, but the first few projects will be pretty simple. Bottle openers and such. but the end goal is to be able to make some custome toy boxes for my boys, and some cool tap handles for my buddy who's starting a brewery.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:so I'm about 90% through my forge build. Need to trim so sheet metal and build a quick frame to keep the coal from falling off the table top. The original blower I was going to used was a small shop vac that was given to me. but alas, the motor was broken. So this weekend I was out garage saling and found the best garage sale find ever, at least for me. A bucket of coal and an old working shop vac for $10 total. total cost for the forge build still net $0 cause I would have paid $10 for the coal alone.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thors....I too am in the process of finishing up a brake drum forge and just got an anvil.  Nachurally, I needed some anvil tools, tongs, etc.  If you need to get some hammers and such, try the local junk tool shops.  I picked up some beat up ball peins and other heavy hammers and dressed them up with an angle grinder (grinding a little at a time and cooling in a water bucket pretty often).One item that can be intimidating for the novice, like me, are hardie cut-off tools.  Well, to shortcut the forging process for now since I didn't have any large steel stock for them, I found a couple of mason's or bricklayer's chisels at the junk shop for a couple of bucks each.  I found some with a 1" handle to match my hardie hole, carefully ground and cooled the cutting edges.  You can find or grind down any handle size or even build up one with weld stringers ground flat.  One chisel was dressed up straight, the other with the curved cut-off.  They work like a charm and the old steel is great.  Since tool steel can be difficult to work with sometimes, the rework of the chisels got rid of that step for now.  With your type of anvil setup, you might be able to come up with a makeshift hardie hole setup with thick-walled square tubing or make your own square tube with 1/4", 5/16" or 3/8" plate scraps cut and welded together.For punches and drifts, I found several punches and drifts that were badly chipped....$1-$2 each.  Just dressed them up for whatever diameter I needed.  Once again, the older steel seems better.Last edited by shortfuse; 07-22-2013 at 12:03 PM.
Reply:I've been hunting garage sales, and have been given many tools over the years so I've got a decent number of older hammers and such. don't have many old tool stores, save pawn shops and I'm not paying those prices. I plan on picking up some of the larger chissels. Not sure what I'm going to do for a hardy hole yet. May try to drill something. We'll see. for now I'm going to shape some of the verticle sections of track to act as hardies. we'll see how it goes. once funds come around, I'll start a serious anvil search. but for now, I'm sticking with the smaller stuff anyway so I think this will do fine. I picked up my anvil base yesterday. 150-200 lbs of ash stump. requires some trimming to work with the anvil, but it should turn out really nice once it's all said and done.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:well, the forge is done. here are some pics. Attached ImagesThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:more photos including the first fire. Fire started with briquets than coal was added. Attached ImagesThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Looks like your gaining, good work.
Reply:Thors...Your forge will work just fine.  BTW, what is the brake rotor/big square block and handle for?For starting your coal fire, no need to go to the trouble of briquets, etc.  Just wad up some newspaper in a tight ball about the size of a grapefruit, pile some coal around it and a little on top.  Light the paper and crank your blower up a little.  The fire will start slowly, but it will start.  After you have been working with a coal fire and quit, the coke that's left behind will usually start easily. Takes a bit of practice, but is so much simpler.Last edited by shortfuse; 07-24-2013 at 10:42 PM.
Reply:The rotor is a lid/damper. Puts the fire out right quick saving any fuel thats still in the fire pot. as for starting it. The only coal I have right now is large chunks and I figured it would start better using the briquest to get the coal to coke up and break apart easier. It'll be a few weeks before I can get down the the "local" (about a two hour drive) coal supplier to get some smithing coal. Also, the blower is to strong right now. I need to either open the ash dump, or add a dimmer to the shop vac. I'll probably do the dimmer eventually, but for now propping the ash dump open will help reduce the air speed. I'm blasting fuel right out of the fire pot right now.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerthe blower is to strong right now. I need to either open the ash dump, or add a dimmer to the shop vac. I'll probably do the dimmer eventually, but for now propping the ash dump open will help reduce the air speed. I'm blasting fuel right out of the fire pot right now.
Reply:Kelvin,Opening the ash dump will do the same thing. Right now I've just got the hose from the shop vac stuck in the end of the pipe so doing the "damper" on the inlet is out until I reconfigure the inlet/blower entirely.Saving the coke that's in the fire pot is exactly why I made the lid/damper to kill the fire.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:ThorsHammer...I noticed early in the thread that your plumbing is all welded in.  My forge has the 2" black iron pipe plumbing arrangement.  For my air control, I put in a blast gate using a short connector union.  I used my angle grinder with a 1/16" cutoff wheel and a sawzall to cut a slot in each side of the connection.  Used a piece of 1/16" scrap with a 2" hole cut in it that slides back and forth to regulate the airflow from a fart fan blower.  That way I don't have to worry about a speed control.  I control it using a rod sliding through a bar welded to the frame.  If the pictures show up on the posting, the control arm is the horizontal black rod with a handle pointing downward; one pic with it in the open position, the other closed.  The benchtop pic has the plumbing upside down so it would stand up for photo.The snuffer is a good idea to save coal.  I still have the 9" disk from when I had the hole for the brake drum CNC cut out...will make a good snuffer.
Reply:Shortfuse I like the blast gate. I've saved the picts for reference. I've been thinking about making something similar for my coal forge. Thanks for the detailed picts. I may go ahead and build one vs just buying one like I'd been thinking about. Your  rig is a bit different than the one the college hooked up this year on their coal forges so you can easily adjust the blast gate as needed. Yours looks a lot simpler and easier to maintain. The one on my forge during the class constantly got stuck either open or closed and was a PITA to use until we teaked it a few times. Your stand is also very similar to what I've been thinking of adding to mine to make it more portable. I also like your tool rack. You might want to think about adding a slide out work support under the table. That's one of the things I'm planning to add to mine so I don't have to walk around a separate support stand when I work with slightly longer pieces. The ones at the college had a couple of designs, but most were simply some tube attached under the table that took a sliding loop similar to what you are using for your cart handle..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWShortfuse I like the blast gate. I've saved the picts for reference. I've been thinking about making something similar for my coal forge. Thanks for the detailed picts. I may go ahead and build one vs just buying one like I'd been thinking about. Your  rig is a bit different than the one the college hooked up this year on their coal forges so you can easily adjust the blast gate as needed. Yours looks a lot simpler and easier to maintain. The one on my forge during the class constantly got stuck either open or closed and was a PITA to use until we teaked it a few times. Your stand is also very similar to what I've been thinking of adding to mine to make it more portable. I also like your tool rack. You might want to think about adding a slide out work support under the table. That's one of the things I'm planning to add to mine so I don't have to walk around a separate support stand when I work with slightly longer pieces. The ones at the college had a couple of designs, but most were simply some tube attached under the table that took a sliding loop similar to what you are using for your cart handle.
Reply:Thanks. I have a set of "jumbo" lawn mower wheels I salvaged a while back that I intend to use on my forge. I'd guess they are at least 10" if not larger. They are complete with the height adjustment parts as well. I haven't played with them yet, but I was thinking about trying to set it up so you could adjust the wheels so they will roll, then change the height so the forge sets on the legs rather than the wheels. Only down side is the wheels are the standard rubber ones and won't take hot slag and clinker well. We'll seee how well they hold up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagani would recomend a tee with a diverter  to allow some of the air to be dumped rather than a blast gate which essentially deadheads the fan, and runs noisier  .(.i have a handcranked blower which is nice because you only crank it while you take heat.).i watch so many videos  where the damned fan is screaming away burning up coal that so many guys have to drive 2 hours to buy..
Reply:Nice airgate shortfuse. and one that wouldn't be hard to add to mine with different sized hole in the gate. The pipe is heavy wall and just under 2" O.D.. My set up is light weight. Light enough that I can roll it on the wheels it has on the loose gravel and open center bricks of my parking pad and storage area. I like the idea of the tong wrack on the forge. leaves more room for hammers on the anvil stand.Weldbead, one of the best options I've heard people using is having the step on christmas tree light extention cord on the blower unit. that way it's a quick tap and the blower is off, quick tap it's back on. less bending under the forge. More fuel saved from the blower being on. but for now. My fire poker works real well for turning off the blower.DSW, try mounting the wheels inboard of the legs. that should help protect them from the hot stuff. thow, even if you don't, you'll be surprised how little will actually hit them. They'll probably last a long while no matter what configuration you go with.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:If falling slag and clinker looks like it will land on the wheels, fabricate a set of "fenders" from sheet metal to cover the upper half of the tire.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW. ...Only down side is the wheels are the standard rubber ones and won't take hot slag and clinker well. We'll seee how well they hold up.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldIf falling slag and clinker looks like it will land on the wheels, fabricate a set of "fenders" from sheet metal to cover the upper half of the tire.
Reply:DSW and ThorsHammer....Here are some additional detail pics of the blast gate assy.  I will have to break them up since there are more than the alloted 5.Once again, the countersinks or bevels on the holes on the bar REALLY make it easy to swing the rod around and remove/install.
Reply:Here are the rest.The rod handle and a "goal post".  You aren't usually poking your work deep into the coal, but rather with 3-4" coal under your work, but sometimes it may be necessary to raise the end of a long piece and keep it from sliding off a support.  I made an "H" out of 1/2" rod, forged some loops, drilled three height adjustment holes in the vertical uprights and put on some pins and chains so I could adjust it up/down as needed.
Reply:Sweet. Thanks!There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:So, yesterday I got to take a private tour of a local active rock quarry. And while I was there the owner let me raid their scrap pile. This is what I came home with. Two rock anvils that will be used for my main anvil and a post anvil. A manhole cover that will be used as another anvil type device. a tooth from an excavator bucket that will be used as a hardy type item for it's angles and such. 12 bucket tooth retention pins that will be used for projects. two smallish sections of 5/8" plate. again for projects, two trailer springs  again for projects, and some other miscellaneous pieces of metal again to be used for projects. Attached ImagesThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I have a new bucket tooth that I'm using as a hot cut hardy after I sharpened the edge a bit and added a shank to fit my hardy hole.I honestly doubt the rocks will work all that great as anvils. Most stone types don't take well to repeated impact. I have seen "budget" anvils made from taking a decent piece of steel plate, welding some anchors to the bottom and then wet setting the plate with anchors in concrete. They work fair on average from what I've seen and been told. Again the repeated impact tends to loosen them up. Using really heavy steel and high strength concrete helps..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:LMAO! they aren't rocks. They are what break the rocks. What the rocks are hit against in other words.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Ah... In picts 1 and 2 at the top, those 2 broken edges looked like a rock surface. I didn't look close enough at the bottom pict to see the machined surfaces.That will work..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Everything around a quarry operation ends up looking like rock.........after it sits outside a while collecting dust.
Reply:it's cast white iron with a high chrome content so hopefully it will last me long enough to get a decent anvil later on. They weren't sure of the composition of the post, but it's harder than the other one. and has a much nicer ring to it. even though neither has a great ring. they will both work fine.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thors...Looks like you scored well...great for a start, then build upon that.  Those rock anvils had me going for a minute there, too.  I could picture one heavy swing and crack!!!  Glad you straightened us out on what they really were.I had a neighbor who just cleaned out her garage in the country and I scrounged about 80-100# of all kinds of scrap from it...bonanza!!BTW, I tried out the sliding blast gate with the rod controller added today...worked great.  Very simple.
Reply:made my first two fuctional items on my new Anvil yesterday. The first was 5/8" round stock and the second was a bolt that I got from my quarry scrounging. and will be a gift to the quarry owner as a thank you. they are crude, but thats why I like them. Attached ImagesThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:One man's trash is another man's treasure Good work!You probably already know this, but after your forging, scrub them up really good with a wire brush/wheel, heat slightly and rub down with beeswax.  Nice patina and resists rust.BTW, how many brewskis did it take to make those openers???Last edited by shortfuse; 07-29-2013 at 04:30 PM.
Reply:Just two, and luckily so, as that was the only beers that I had.The first one was quenched in oil and it actually took, the other was also quenched in oil but because it was a harder metal to begin with it didn't really take. I put them both back in the fire to burn off any extra oil and than quenched in water and dried. Neither leave anything on your hands. I'll get my hands on some wax though.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerJust two, and luckily so, as that was the only beers that I had.The first one was quenched in oil and it actually took, the other was also quenched in oil but because it was a harder metal to begin with it didn't really take. I put them both back in the fire to burn off any extra oil and than quenched in water and dried. Neither leave anything on your hands. I'll get my hands on some wax though.
Reply:Thanks for the info. I'm right near the hippie capital of the NW so I should be able to find some local somewhere without much issue. but with the bee scare thats been going on for the last couple years I'm sure it's gone up in price.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Older oil storage drums - the big oval kind - are rather thick steel (1/8" or better) and you might find them in junk yards for cheap.   the big ovals have nice flat sides that make for great plate stock so long as you don't mind the rust pits.Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:Originally Posted by shortfuseI don't know if you have a local source for beeswax, but I priced some online, ebay, and it was pretty pricey...ranged from $13 to $17 per one pound brick, including S/H.  I happened by our local organic health food store on a whim and their's (a local beeswax) was priced at $9 per pound, no S/H.  A one pound brick should last a long time.
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinI think the cheapest wax ring gaskets they sell for toilets are mostly beeswax. About a buck apiece.
Reply:most of them specify don't they? I want to say the last time I replaced a toilet it specified...There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thors...check your PM's here.