beginner with tig

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I have been practicing with my synchrowave 250. I have been following suugestions on this forum and starting with coupons and butt welds. A problem I am having with steel is the welds look great, on the backside. If I back off the pedal it seems to rapidly evolve into a cold weld. I am wondering if this could be caused by the tungsten to close. using 1/16 steel, 1/16th tungsten, 85 amps and pure argon. I have tried a couple of filets but that is a different program
Reply:Howdy bro. Ok your learning TIG its a big curve honestly trust me lol . To learn i would not even bother with using a pedal unless your doing AC alum. Best way is to set the Syncro and learn that before palying with a pedal control. On a Syncro 250 which is what we have id start with 90 - 120 amps,HF start, Crater time on 4-5 secs, Postflow 2-3 secs. 3/32nd is the BEST filler to learn on in my opinon. You do not need 1/8th tungsten or filler unless your doing thick metal . If your doing mild steel clean the hell out of it lol. Stainless clean also but Mild is the worst if its even remotely dirty.Also set your argon about 15-20 cfh its less with a gas lens but we will get to that later.....PRACTICE PRACTICE .... Trust me thats how i got it. Alot of 4 letter words were involved before i really got the swing of it ...Did i mention clamps flying across the shop also lol lol lol
Reply:do not overlook the value of 10 and 12 letter words......
Reply:thanx. is it normal to have the weld with so much penetration?
Reply:Blind leading the blind.No four letter words needed.Torn,Maybe you'd like to explain the 4-5 seconds of "crater time".You also may find that postflow of 2-3 sec. @ 90-120A is also BS.Of course, I may learn something new here.  Only been welding with Sync's for about 30 years.If it gets any "better" later, I think I'll take a pass.Where the he11 do these  come from?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:sundown, what do you recomend for a setup on my syncrowave? My practice material is 1/16 mild steel. i have been using red 1/16th tungsten, 85 amps 100% argon at 15 psi. I dont want to practice with the machine setup incorrect. Is seems that the top of the weld is looking a bit hot and the backside looks like that is where the weld was made. I try to back off the pedal a little and it looks a little cold. I will try to post pics later.....Steve
Reply:Originally Posted by benchracer1sundown, what do you recomend for a setup on my syncrowave? My practice material is 1/16 mild steel. i have been using red 1/16th tungsten, 85 amps 100% argon at 15 psi. I dont want to practice with the machine setup incorrect. Is seems that the top of the weld is looking a bit hot and the backside looks like that is where the weld was made. I try to back off the pedal a little and it looks a little cold. I will try to post pics later.....Steve
Reply:Sundown never has any recommendations. All he ever has is criticism. Millermatic 251Spectrum 300 PlasmaEverlast PowerTig 250EXEverlast PowerCool W300Harris / Victor OACraftsman 13 Speed Drill PressProTools Air/Hydraulic Bender48" BrakeCompressor, Notchers, Grinders, etc.
Reply:i think I have some pics. The top one is the back of the coupon. The second one is the top. the weld closest to the hole in the metal was run with a relatively same amp all the way thru. the second one I backed off the pedal and it seemed to get a little cold. Thanx in advance you guys for the input Attached ImagesLast edited by benchracer1; 02-02-2011 at 11:18 PM.
Reply:just keep running bead after bead on flat plate to learn puddle controlmaybe go up to 1/8 steel-- 1/16 is tuff to learn its all hood time practice practice..... an some morerun 50 beads  6inch long next to each otherand you should seen improvment then lap ,butt joints  (snicker snicker butt joints ) then filetsITS ALL HOOD TIMEidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:benchracer,I prefer starting my guys on 1/8" mild steel.  It's thick enough to learn heat control with, but not so thick as to require a bunch of amps (110-120A).  The 1/16" is what I have them move to after becoming proficient on the thicker material.I get plenty of scrap 1/8" from my buddy's dumpster (drops from the plasma table).  Generally, if it's less than about 2' left on the end of a sheet, they'll throw it rather than taking a chance of it rolling up and striking the plasma head.I'll take the sheet and rip 2" strips off of it with the Metal Cut Saw.  Leaves a nice, weld ready edge.  Then I'll take a 60gr flap disk and remove the mill scale (genearally, both sides but sometimes only one).  I'll then cut them into 4" long strips (either with the band saw with several stacked or with the plasma).  I'll generally do the cutting and let my guys do the grinding.Get used to controlling the puddle as you move along without adding filler.  If you're consistent, it will show on the back side of the coupon.  Once you've got this down, start to add filler.  Get used to stopping the bead and restarting without the stop showing.Use several coupons at a setting.  Swap out coupons between beads.  Running a second bead beside one already laid down will give you a "false reading" since it's been preheated by the first bead.After you've got this down pat, it's time to move to the butt joints.  Steel is not as sensitive to heat buildup as aluminum is but you'll still find yourself backing off slightly on the amps as you progress with the bead.  Either that, or you'll find yourself moving faster than you might be comfortable.  Telling someone to learn tig without a pedal/finger control (when you've got a Sync to learn with) is flat out stupid.  I've done a fair amount of scratch start/lift arc tig and it's not the best way to learn.When you move to your T joints, the biggest thing is to remember to keep a higher percentage of heat on the flat (horizontal) piece rather than the vertical piece.  The flat will take more heat than the edge on the vertical piece.  Your settings didn't look that far off for 1/16" material.  Miller recommends about 1 sec of postflow per 10 amps welding ampherage.  Good rule of thumb, but I seldom use more than 10-12 seconds, even for heavier material.  Never heard of holding the tungsten too close.  Too close means that you're dipping it too often.  If you can hold a 1/16'-1/8" arc you're doing well.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Rugar,Maybe you should go back and read more of my posts.Might just show you how stupid your comments are.(I was typing a response when Rugar posted)PS:  Maybe you should go back to the Neverlast forum and play there.  People on the real Welding Web have enough experience to see right thru your BS.  Over there, with the newbies, you may get by with your lack of knowledge.Last edited by SundownIII; 02-03-2011 at 01:03 AM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIRugar,Maybe you should go back and read more of my posts.Might just show you how stupid your comments are. (I was typing a response when Rugar posted) PS:  Maybe you should go back to the Neverlast forum and play there.  People on the real Welding Web have enough experience to see right thru your BS.  Over there, with the newbies, you may get by with your lack of knowledge.
Reply:[QUOTE=Rugar;468914]Why do you always have to be so negative with your initial response? /QUOTE]Go read Torn7th response and see if that one was helpful.  Please point to _ANY_ part of his post that was actually useful in anyway.  Remember, the OP said he was welding on 1/16"In the meantime, I'm checking my Dynasty 350 manual for that cool crater setting.  Maybe the hidden menu.   How big of a crater can I make in 3 seconds?Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by benchracer1i think I have some pics. The top one is the back of the coupon. The second one is the top. the weld closest to the hole in the metal was run with a relatively same amp all the way thru. the second one I backed off the pedal and it seemed to get a little cold. Thanx in advance you guys for the input
Reply:Benchracer you might try a couple pieces of 1/8 plate tack  you some T's and practice welding those together.  Practice welding them flat first, the T will give you a bit more control of your torch.  Put a cup big enough not to interfere with your weld, adjust your tungsten accordingly.  Good luck, keep practicing.
Reply:i am going to have to go with sundown on this. learning the curves on tig is a little much for 1/16th material and a beginner. you are going to have to learn to read the puddle, learn to manipulate the puddle, and learn to keep the puddle moving consistently first.the same thing as confuse said as well about penetration. even if you dont have access to a buddy with a plas table and a dumpster out back, a 20 ft stick of 2x1/8 flat bar from the steel supplier is around 20 bucks. buy it, cut it into 4 to 6 inch pieces and start melting the metal.patience and endurance are going to be the key to learning this curve. seems that you are off to a decent start, just need to read the puddlemigweld 250parcmate 205weldall 250piforcecut 80i plasma'07 pro 300 miller'08 trailblazer 302mm350pdynasty 700dynasty 200deltaweld 452xr-a 50ft push pull feeders and gooseneck
Reply:I just purchased a Smith and Wesson 500 Magnum. I am having problems getting it loaded.Any suggestions?  LOL Sorry couldn't help it.LOL lol...lol...lolBut at least you have a Miller Syncrowave 250 !!!!!! /the king!!!OK I will get serious now.Crater fill -OFF.The amps set on the machine is not the actual amps you are using .It is only a portion that you are using when you depress the foot pedal. Unless you just mash it down completely.When you practice  DO NOT use a flat plate .Try to take two plates  and weld them together. When you try practicing on a flat plate you have to start up very hot and as the plate heats up you have to move faster and faster or let off the pedal. And control the torch and filler rod. Too much.When you said 1/16 steel and 1/16 tungsten did that mean 1/16 plate? or 1/16 filler rod diameter?On a 1/16 plate and 1/16 tungsten you will need the smaller .045 filler rod and maybe even a .035 filler rod.The diameter of the filler rod can effect the travel speed of your welding and make it hard if you have to wait for the filler rod to melt in the puddle.Remember the trick to TIG is HOT,CLOSE ,FAST.Not slow like oxy-actylene welding.Most beginners have to be told, when TIG welding, "you better get moving"Make welding coupons. Two plates tacked together on each end and beveled if needed.Not just flat plate.Set your main amps to about 100 for that 1/16 because you will only be using part of that amperage.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 02-14-2011 at 06:19 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Benchracer1:  I havn't tiged all that long but you might try this:Take your thin steel and start at one end , (no rod at all)  start the arc and watch for a shiney puddleto form. As you see it forming start moving slowly- slow enough that your shiney puddle keeps up withyour arc. If it gets smaller slow down enough to let it grow back to a set constant size ( maybe1/8? or a little less)  move and watch - as you get close to the end of the plate you will see the puddle wanting to get bigger without youslowing down any.  Back off on the peddle just a little trying to keep your same speed.  keep reducingcurrent near the end -  the current will be really low near the last little bit of the edge.  Do this several times on different sheets of metal.   Each time after you do this inspect the back sideof the cupon.  If you were too hot you will see  little oval "droops" where the back got too liquid (hot).If just rite you will see a strange looking stripe but no geometric bulges.  If not hot enough you willsee no trail following the bead on the other side.    Maybe do this with 1/8 sheet to stat with.  This should help you a lot to get the feel of too much/too little heat.  It will also help you track what the back is doing by watching what the front looks like.I think you will learn this faster than you expect.  After this seems easier then go back and workon adding rod AND doing the first part with the same constant adjustments.   I have found in generalthe closer you can keep the point of he electrode to the puddle - the better the weld looks ( but you may accidently dip the tungsten more often ! If I have said anything outrageious here I'm sure someone will kindly correct my error !Have a good time- the fun is in the learning !Tim
Reply:Originally Posted by RugarSundown never has any recommendations. All he ever has is criticism.
Reply:Well Darth,You only got that about "half right".I do know how to weld.  Do YOU?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Hey guys,Personal attacks are not going to be tolerated.....for ANY reason!  If you have a problem with a response to a thread because of a bit of criticism, make an effort to keep it civil & tactful. No need to start another flaming war over nonsense......DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."