C's and L's. boxes.

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I have wanted to do these for a long time.  Finally yesterday they showed up.  11 pieces of each.     There is a small skid of fittings for each end and the top too.  The last one is a pattern, I have an 8.5  x 11 copy of the blue print.  Its almost impossible to read.  The first picture are bases not made by me.   The next batch will be cut on a water jet or lazer, I don't know the difference.  I know this customer brings me good stuff.  I *think* its cold rolled 1/8".These are the Cs.   The fittings fit in the holes well.These are the Ls.  And this is the pattern.  The top one is locomotive and the bottom one is marine.   11 of each piece.  The bottom is open.I have a price per and I can weld them as I please.  I got a call from them today, the last 2 I finished had no leaks.These are the first ones I build from scratch.  I have repaired many over the years and they must have run out of screwed up ones because I have had to modify many of them.I am going to tig the first one, then decide from there.  I guarantee to fit and be water tight. Tested at 5 psi air.David in Tig HeavenLast edited by David R; 01-06-2012 at 06:41 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Good to see you keeping busy..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i don't know if i missed it, but what are they for?
Reply:The metal housing that goes over an oil cooler in a train.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hey David,Glad to see you're busy.....been good here too.You're TIG definitely shows an excellent progression from your initial TIG postings & as we 'ol timers attempt to stress to the newbies/uyoungsters, the more you do, the BETTER you get.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Top one looks just like the one I warm my lunch on every night at work...Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:I did the first one today.   All tig.  It went well, the parts fit together quite well.  I learned a couple of things for the next one.  My guestamate for time was good. Welding the flange on the bottom with the arcmaster 185 got the water cooled #20 torch and hoses warm before I was done.  I think the welds looked pretty good, pics on monday.  I forgot my camera today.Nice relaxing work, 10 left.Yorkiepap, thank you for the complement.   I just like everyone else thought I was good when I started.  Now after 5 years or so of tig, I am starting to get the hang of it.   Nothing can replace seat time.  These will help me get even better I hope.  I bid them as tig for the whole thing.  IF I can do the base pulsed spray and they do not leak, it would be fine with my customer.   No leaks is #1.   Looks don't matter to the customer or end user once its done and in place.   DavidLast edited by David R; 01-07-2012 at 06:19 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I have been really busy.  OT is all I want, but I am self employes, so its not time and a half.Here is the first part, an L.    Plate or sheet is 11 ga.   Its not hot rolled, and its not cold rolled, but its mild steel for sure.Flap disc for anywhere I am going to weld.  All edges even the inside of the edge so the crap does not come through.  This is the second one, so I learned a few things already.  Here is the first part of assembly. Next TIG TACK, a real tack which is a removable weld.   This is on the second unit.  On the third one, I used the timer on my arcmaster 185 to give 1/2 second at full bore to make the tacks.   They came out well with less paying attention by me.Now its ready to be welded.  Its square and who ever cut them and bent them did an excellent job.  All seams are within less than  1/32" off.   All this took me an hour.First weld on the bench.  This is the only weld with the box laying down.  about 36" of weld.  1/16" E70S-6  #18F water cooled torch powered by my Lincoln V350 pro set to 90 amps.  I had it on 150 and 200, but at 90 or 95 amps, I can just hold it to the  floor and weld.  I am going for more consistent welds and this seems to help me.  On the next one I used the arcmaster 185 and the "2T" setting.   Once the arc was started, I didn't even need to stand on the pedal.  This was handy later when doing the round stuff.More....Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:One thing I found on the first one is this corner was square and pointed.  It screwed up my assembly, so I put a radius on it.  Made things fit better.Here are a couple of welds close up after wire wheel.Once the top weld is done, I put the part on the floor and sit on this stool to do most of the rest of the job.   DAYM I love it!These rings are recessed to fit in the hole and covered with some kind of packing oil. I have to remove it for a good weld.  I also nee to get the cutting oil out of the threaded holes or it fills my shop with smoke.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Weld on the ring.  150 amps, fillet weldThis tool was supplied to my customer.    The base flange has different spaced holes and can go on backwards.  I checked a couple of times against the sample they gave me to be sure it was on right.   This gives the spacing to make it 35" top to bottom and the fitting the proper space from the base because the piping to the oil cooler is rigid and welded in place.  Its gotta be right.   On the first one I used the Tig to tack these, this time I used a miller passport turned all the way up with .030 ER70S-6 wire and Co2 plugged into 220.MIG tacks and all of my F clamps Now I set the box on these saw horses so I can roll around the whole thing on the stool and weld.   200 amps, 3/32 E70S-6 rod.   A close up of the weldAll for today.  More tomorrow.    PULSED spray around the base on #3 in the morning.  I am going to try and make it look like TIG.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:David R sez: "These rings are recessed to fit in the hole and covered with some kind of packing oil. I have to remove it for a good weld. I also nee to get the cutting oil out of the threaded holes or it fills my shop with smoke."I'm pretty sure you're tuned-in on brake cleaner, it's conversion to phosgene gas,with the ability to destroy lung tissue, etc.;ala the sticky note, etc.---but I'll say this anyway.If you're going to use brake cleaner, then do really good air blow off in the holes, etc.If you smell even a whiff of strong, acrid--stuff, then stop, ventilate area, then clean again.Blackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonDavid R sez: "These rings are recessed to fit in the hole and covered with some kind of packing oil. I have to remove it for a good weld. I also nee to get the cutting oil out of the threaded holes or it fills my shop with smoke."I'm pretty sure you're tuned-in on brake cleaner, it's conversion to phosgene gas,with the ability to destroy lung tissue, etc.;ala the sticky note, etc.---but I'll say this anyway.If you're going to use brake cleaner, then do really good air blow off in the holes, etc.If you smell even a whiff of strong, acrid--stuff, then stop, ventilate area, then clean again.
Reply:I am up to #5 almost finished.  Here are the results of pulsed spray.   I just ran the bead.  For a short while I tried doing circles and just moving the torch back and forth.   Pictures sucked so here are the best 2.   The circles made more of a V in the weld and the back and forth made more of a C.V350 set for 250 inches per minute of wire.  Wave control at 8.5.Thermal Arc .035 ER70S-6 wireAfter the long pass, my 200 amp tweeco/lincoln gas cone was glowing red.  I put on a Bernard 400 amp knock off  heat is not a problem.  This is the way to fly for such a long fillet.This was the first pulsed spray weld on the part.  Bare wire, 92%  argon/8% Co2  One pass.Right to left, clockwise circlesBack and forth motion a little like  6010.They all will be done like in the first two pictures.  I don't need no stinkin dimes.Last edited by David R; 01-13-2012 at 09:38 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Nice looking work David. That seems like a real fun job. Nice material supplied by the customer. Sweet!HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Looks good, David.Is there measurable distortion on those long plate flange welds--when measuring with straight edgeperpendicular to the mating face and measuring along the outside flange edge?(I would suspect there'd be some bowing from the long, linear weld bead.)Blackbird
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonLooks good, David.Is there measurable distortion on those long plate flange welds--when measuring with straight edgeperpendicular to the mating face and measuring along the outside flange edge?(I would suspect there'd be some bowing from the long, linear weld bead.)
Reply:This is #7 of 10.  The welds in one spot looked much better and I am trying to figure out why.This is the same bead.    Same stick of filler until about 3" past the corner.  I don't know what I did different.  Machine locked on 80 amps.  All the pictures are as welded.  No wire brush or wheel.Looks like 3 different people welded it.  Last edited by David R; 01-15-2012 at 05:41 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Now for the blueprints.   I said I popped a tack.   They were not supposed to be tacks......  .5" long .12 fillet every 3" on the inside.It says nothing about process or filler.DavidLast edited by David R; 01-15-2012 at 05:42 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I tested one of the last ones today.  2 psi was plenty with no support on the sides.  There were leaks in the frame around the base where the steel met.  I ground them out and welded them back.  Some bubbled so I ground them out again.  These are the plugs I used.   I ran a tap in every hold of the cover on the bottom.I shipped the last four today in my contractors cadillac. I probably won't see more for a few months. DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:[SIZE="3"]DavidR  -  Was this a bid project, or given to you?  If it was bid (competitive) this is how you take the job, and make moremoney.  You approach the client/designer and contribute to the design by explaining weld jointary.  Corner to corner joints on tanks is poordesign.  In this instance, you suggest a short flange broken on all of the mating corners, giving you a lap weld.  Fit-up is fast, little edge prep, it broadens the weld perimeters, and the weld warps less.  When you challenge the design instead if just "submitting a bid" it tell the client that you are thinking more that the other respondents, and in my experience, this gifts you the job.    Opus
Reply:Customers Design, Customers blueprint.   Yeah, I bid the job and got twice what the last guy was getting.   NO I can't change the design.The last guy did them with a MIG and they looked terrible.  They also had quite a few leaks.  I hope I got the job because I can do it properly and follow the blue prints.I would not challenge a 30 or so year old design.  I will not challenge most blue prints, I am not an engineer.   My customer totally understands what he has there.  Lap welds would be easier, then anybody could do the job......  It would go for less..  For the pictures in post #17, on unit #9 I figured out why the sides looked different than the top.  When I assemble the C and L.  I slide the C over the top and the nice sharp square edges gather the dirt and junk on the sheet and hold it there until I weld where it finds it way out from the heat.  I wiped the edges off just before welding and solved that problem.  Next time I will know.Look at post 8 picture #4.  I slide the top over the bottom on the bench until it lines up.  This is what gathers the junk under the edge.Live and learnDavidLast edited by David R; 02-03-2012 at 07:54 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:David R  -  You have made my point, the design is thirty years old and has never been improved  -  Opus
Reply:I am just reading along to learn more, not a welder.  I think the difference between you and the other guy is you notice things that don't look right or that look different for no reason.  And it bothers you until you figure out why.  That's an excellent quality.  A lot of contractors don't care as long as they get paid and get out of there.  If I lived in West By Golly, I would want you on the job.  You care about making money and being as efficient as possible but only when it makes sense and makes a good product. Thanks for the lessons.
Reply:Nice post! Great use of pictures. It takes time to do all that and I appreciate it. I'm a semi-noob hobby welder / metal art wannabe. This kind of post helps me learn and I could read them all day.  One question: what is HAZ?Miller diversion 165Miller mig 211Hypertherm pm 30Milwaukee 6230 14 inch chop sawMd 45 mag drill (RIP; fell on its head)New MD 45! Thanks to the esposa!Finally got an O/A setup
Reply:HAZ - Heat Affected Zone. It's the area around the weld that has been affected by the high heat from the weld process.Brad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."good post and good work, bobbobs77vet/37ford4drEastwood digital TIG200HH190Lincoln Invertec 155sLincoln weldpak 100sears/craftsman (lincoln) 50a 240v buzz boxO/A rig Harris gaugesnexion cut 50 dxchicago electric (HF) 240v spot welder
Reply:One guy at work was welding up a hydraulic tank and when they tested it, it had 45 leaks!  Turns out he did all of the seams downhand mig.  So yeah, don't downhand them.  Felt sorry for the feller that had to fix them!