Generator sizing

admin

Hey all,I need a bit of help.  I want to be able to do some mobile side jobs and I'm trying to figure out what size generator to get.  I have a Lincoln HD175 and a PowerCraft stick welder.  Both are 220v machines, one is 50 amp input and the other is 30.   amp.  What size generator would you all recommend?Thanks,TroyLincoln 175Monkey Wards 230v.  Stick
Reply:Seems a lot of people ask this without searching the site. This question has been beat to a long slow death.Short answer, the stick welder needs 10-15,000 watt generator for various reasons.Mig needs a little less.Buy an engine drive instead. Money ahead without the aggravation of screwing around with stuff.Some of the engine drives will power your mig as well - used ones under $2000.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Find out how many Watts of power you need to run the machines. I think most here say its best to have a generator that will produce almost 2X the needed Watts so that the generator doesn't "bog" down and cause the frequency of the output to change from 59.9HZ (60). Use the search, there are allot of posts about generators. For a 50amp 220v machine you will need a large generator.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I have spent quite a bit of time searching the site for an answer.  The closest I could find was maybe a 7kw - 10kw.  I would love an engine drive unit but at this point it's totally unfeasible and out of the question.  Does anybody have a suggestions for an inexpensive  probably used gen unit that can do what I need?Lincoln 175Monkey Wards 230v.  Stick
Reply:Amen to what Minnesota Dave says..   This home depot stuff and all this new name generic stuff isn't to good.   Even if it claims to be the appropiate KW, the quality of electricity it puts out is poor.    The dirty power seems to effect the weld quality on the my sp175 plus quite a bit more than it does with my cc machines.   Also just because it says 8000kw or whatever, don't believe it.   I think that they can legally claim its output to be such, when it's free spinning with no load on it. A new good generator will run you at least what a new portable welder costs.    Now I've heard from my Local welding salesman, that on some of the newer welders, that the voltage output is set to high, and causes some of the newer plasma cutters to go into default or automatically shut themselves off.
Reply:To further pound my drum, used smaller engine drives around here go as low as $700. How much do you figure a used big generator will be?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Finding a genset used to run the mig probably won't be all that tough. finding one big enough to give you full output on the stick machine will be quite a bit harder to locate.Keep in mind that many "home owner" gensets are often listed by surge, not continuous output. For a welder you will need the genny to produce the output required continuously. Many 8000 watt gennys are really something like 6500 watt continuous units. The idea being the "extra" power is there to start refrigerators, well pumps and AC units that have a high start up draw, and then drop down once running.You don't often find many 10KW or larger continuous rated generators unless you start looking at the bigger tow behind diesels. Figure $1K per 1kw of output, with most units having at least 15kw rating. Engine driven welders start to look super cheap at that point...As mentioned your best bet is to hunt CL for a nice used welder generator. Some of the smaller DC stick machines can be found fairly reasonable even new. Older Ac only stick machines pop up all the time on CL around me. Down side is they usually need some work if they are super cheap. Price on the running ones still is quite reasonable. If you want to do both wire and stick, a nice used Bobcat would be a good choice. It's CC/CV rated so you can do stick, or wire with a VS type feeder. Aux output has changed over the years. Older ones were down to 6-8KW IIRC but the newer ones are 10 Kw depending on how "new" they are. 8-10 KW would run your existing mig. I believe even those ratings are surge ratings, so cont output would be lower..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the response now it's time to start saving.Lincoln 175Monkey Wards 230v.  Stick
Reply:As an example, the Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 should have a 15,000 kW generator, just because of its characteristics (according to Lincoln).  You can get a decent quality 160A DC inverter stick welder that will run on a smaller gen set for about $480.  (ESAB 161)"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:http://cosprings.craigslist.org/tls/4066748983.htmlhttp://denver.craigslist.org/tls/4139497487.htmlhttp://pueblo.craigslist.org/tls/4142203072.htmlIt'll run the 175 but not the Powercraft stick welder.The 175 requires 20amp at 240v  20x 240v= 4800 watts for its rated output  ..... BUT   that is solid wall power- gensets don't exactly deliver power the same way- so you need to bump up the available power while using a generator so you are looking at a generator of about 5000-5500watts or moreLast edited by Broccoli1; 10-24-2013 at 04:50 PM.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:So what are you welding that will require a FULL 50 amps input on your 220 volt Stick welder?I would suspicion that you could "probably/maybe" get by with less than 10,000 Watts.I would also suspicion that if you researched all that is written about your "50 amp" input welder, you would find LOTS of guys stating they run these on 30 dryer receptacles/breakers.
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininSo what are you welding that will require a FULL 50 amps input on your 220 volt Stick welder?I would suspicion that you could "probably/maybe" get by with less than 10,000 Watts.I would also suspicion that if you researched all that is written about your "50 amp" input welder, you would find LOTS of guys stating they run these on 30 dryer receptacles/breakers.
Reply:The stick is 30A input.  I assumed  the MIG was 50A input because it has a 50A plug on it.  If the MIG is only 20A then a smaller gen would work fine.  8KV should do the job, according to Broccoli's math.  That should run either one of them.  Correct me if I'm wrong.Lincoln 175Monkey Wards 230v.  Stick
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininI would also suspicion that if you researched all that is written about your "50 amp" input welder, you would find LOTS of guys stating they run these on 30 dryer receptacles/breakers.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1House power is a little different than the generator power.
Reply:Maybe I shouldn't be allowed around electricity.  I went out and double checked both machines and the MIG is 20A and the stick is 50A.  So the smallest gen I should look for is a 12kva.  That's 50A X 220v.  Does this sound right?  The gen size not the shouldn't play with electricity.Lincoln 175Monkey Wards 230v.  Stick
Reply:Originally Posted by HotRodTroyMaybe I shouldn't be allowed around electricity.  I went out and double checked both machines and the MIG is 20A and the stick is 50A.  So the smallest gen I should look for is a 12kva.  That's 50A X 220v.  Does this sound right?  The gen size not the shouldn't play with electricity.
Reply:Dave and Ed and all are right here. If you check the forum posts, I've been through the ringer on this and finally settled on an engine drive which we're saving up for, a bit out of the pension check every month. In the mean time, Ed's loaning me his Honda generator to work our ranch and I can't/won't use a stick on it because the Honda 8500 top-of-the-line inverter generator just isn't enough. That's why all things considered, and I mean ALL things considered, the Lincoln Ranger or perhaps for you, a Miller equivalent, would be the right choice. These people are a wealth of honest, experienced education not to be wasted.
Reply:Well.,being you said your low on money, and just trying to start.  First of all, your going to need to make you a adapter from welder to gen.   So buy a cheap square box and a female 50amp 250 receptacle, a little bit of 3 wire cord at least #10, alot of the cheap stuff were knockin you'll need a male 125 250 4 prong twist lock of some sort.   Go ahead and put it together, because your going to need it anyway.   Then look at used ones, call them up and tell them you'd like to try your stuff out on their gen before you buy it.  Then you can see what you can get away with.
Reply:Like DSW said.I have a Honda 5000 watt Genny with a 30 amp 220 breaker.  Couldn't run 1/8" 7018 on a Lincoln buzz box with it.  Would pop the breaker after an inch of weld.  If you get an inverter for stick, it may save you money vs. a bigger Genny.  My TA161 plugged into the 110 outlet of my Genny can burn rods at 110 amps-no problems. I'm wiring it for the 220 side and should be able to run 140 amps without a problem.  The tranny welder just have so much loss of electricity by design.  Inverters use the power better.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Another option is to rent an engine drive power supply only when you need it.  Rental companies around here sell out of their rental fleet as they buy new equipment.  Dan D.
Reply:Thanks for the ideas.  I think for now I will rent/borrow a unit and roll the cost of that into the cost of the job.  I think that is a sound plan until I save enough to but an engine drive.Lincoln 175Monkey Wards 230v.  Stick
Reply:Pick up a military surplus tow behind genny, they go for dirt cheap and can often be found painted in various colors and picked up from different state agencies. I was at a DNR auction here and one went for $400 it was plenty big to run your welder, the only issue I saw with it was that it was probably built about 50yrs ago, other than that it started and ran great, it also had some great rattle can paint job all done up in DNR orange. She was an ugly beast but the buyer got a good deal on it.
Reply:That's a good idea.  Even if I find one that needs a bit of work it'll be okay.  Thanks for the idea.Lincoln 175Monkey Wards 230v.  Stick