Using OA to braze copper plumbing

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I've always used the standard small propane bottle to braze household copper plumbing but find the heat generated by the small bottle sometimes falls a little short. I recently purchased my first OA equipment and would like to use it to do some brazing here at home for a kitchen remodel.Is that possible and if so what kind of flame do I want. I understand a normal welding flame would be WAY TOO HOT!I've thought about buying a propane torch tip and using propane with the oxygen but if OA is a reasonable/workable idea I could avoid buying the propane tip.Dave
Reply:Have you tried mapp gas?
Reply:It's possible and sometimes desirable to use the OA setup. You can get it hot quicker and get away from it so that there's less overall heat added. However it's also possible to overheat fairly easy. I prefer a soft flame made by a bigger tip. Actually my favorite tip for brazing copper lines is my cutting tip. It makes a broader flame that wraps the copper better. Of course I'm nearly always using sil-phos for a true braze. You state braze in the title but I think you might mean solder. If solder then it's real easy to get to hot.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:An old-style propane torch takes a good while to heat up copper plumbing pipe for soldering.You might want to consider purchasing a new propylene 'swirl' torch; it makes quite a significant improvement - way hotter and faster but with no chance of burning a hole clean through - as could easily happen with oxy-acetylene.Check out this thread, Propane Torch Comparison: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=48365Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:I use an OA set up at work for brazing and soldering copper. Using it with soft solder (50/50) gets a little touchy as there is a fine line between just right and to hot. lately I've been brazing some copper water lines with 15% sil phos. I know, I know, it's expensive, but I was having a bad day trying to repair a leaking water line at a grocery store, the store water was off, customers were complaining, the 50/50 wouldn't flow, so I busted out the big guns. I use on #0 or #1 welding tip, with a medium to sharp flame. I prefer it that way so I can localize the heat, build up my sil phos in one area, and pull it all the way  around, but that's just me.
Reply:Agreed, it's usually easier to use a larger tip with a softer flame if you want to use OA. I've used "small" rosebuds and OA to do large 3" and brass fittings on copper drain lines. The go to for most plumbers is an Air/acetylene torch. These use acetylene and special tips to get a blue flame from straight acetylene. These torches are usually set up for the gas fittings on smaller MC and B sized acet cylinders rather than the bigger valve fittings common with OA torches (although some small OA kits are set up for the smaller cylinders).No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I would NEVER suggest using O/A with soft solder (the lead, or lead free kind).  It's way to easy to get it to outgas some serious nasties.Now, are you brazing, or soldering?  I'm assuming soldering, because you talk about household plumbing (and a kitchen remodel).Air/acetylene is a fantastic process for this, and you have the acetylene tank and regulator, you'll just need the torch, hose, and maybe an inexpensive adapter.  Look at a prest-o-lite torch, or a turbo-torch.That sort of torch is WAY better than anything that uses a disposable propane bottle, and is preferred by most plumbers (who still solder).
Reply:Oops, double post.
Reply:Yes, it's soldering, not brazing. Thanks for the info. I didn't know there were so many options. At least I now know acetylene with oxygen is not the best solution.Great forum!
Reply:solder starts melting at 375, so not much heat needed. mostly you should be concerned with getting the pieces "tinned up"Michael White
Reply:air/acetylene is the way to go, a b-tank is preferable with a 10 foot hose so you don't have to hump the b tank everywhere.  also turbo torch is the way to go the package of the turbo torch will tell you what size tip to use for what size tube.  I want to say that for 1/2" to 1 1/4" will need an A8 tip if you are silver soldering (brazining) you will need to upsize the torch tip a lot to get the heat.
Reply:Originally Posted by wvshooterI've always used the standard small propane bottle to braze household copper plumbing but find the heat generated by the small bottle sometimes falls a little short. I recently purchased my first OA equipment and would like to use it to do some brazing here at home for a kitchen remodel.Is that possible and if so what kind of flame do I want. I understand a normal welding flame would be WAY TOO HOT!I've thought about buying a propane torch tip and using propane with the oxygen but if OA is a reasonable/workable idea I could avoid buying the propane tip.Dave
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardYou were not brazing with a small propane cylinder.
Reply:A lot of HVAC guys use b-tank acetylene and a turbo torch that is EXTREMELY loud, not fun at all to be next to them all day when their doing AC lines, they are usually using hard solder (silver solder) and need the extra heat. For normal plumbing go spend the $35 and get a new swirl type propane torch
Reply:Yeah, they sound like a jet engine, but a prest-o-lite air acetylene torch is nothing but a soothing hiss, and is way better than anything that uses disposable propane bottles.
Reply:Lots of plumbers use air-acetylene torches for soldering copper tubing. You can get in and get out a lot faster than with an air-propane torch, which can be important for parts that you don't want to get too hot (zone valves, etc.)
Reply:For your situation I think a swirl flame propane torch and a bottle of MAPP gas will be a lot hotter than the normal cone flame torch on propane, might be a bit much to try OA soldering for the first time while laying on your back under your sink
Reply:Thanks for all the advice.I ended up buying a Bernz-o-Matic TS8000 torch hooked to a bottle of 99.5% propylene gas also marketed by Bernz-o-Matic. Results were great. Flame much hotter than propane. I found it was capable of taking the household copper to a molten state pretty quickly. I was heating a fitting which was leaking water so I could resolder it with a new fitting. Holding the leaking fitting in a pair of pliers so I could pull it off as soon as the solder went liquid, the fitting and the copper pipe went soft from the heat and crushed like warm butter.Difference between the TS8000 and the TS4000 is the TS8000 has a valve which allows you to adjust the size of the flame while the TS4000 has no adjustment valve. For about $8 more money I went with the TS8000. Both have the swirl nozzle and would be fine for soldering.Bottom line, propylene is worlds better than propane for this job.
Reply:you can use a slip-on tip on your welding torch to convert it to an air/acetylene torch.i've had one for 50 plus years. do a google for --Eastwood Body Soldering Diffuser Tip Leading Torch Tip .