atv trailer design help...

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hey guys, I need some ideas on making a atv utility trailer to transport a control stand into my cargo trailer. The control stand is about 300 lbs and needs to be able to be transported by one person. Its measurements are 18"x28" and 42" tall. I looked thru the threads on here and see that some of you guys are using the dump trailers to load heavy objects. Whatever you guys can suggest as ideas on what type of design would work for this I'm open. So far Ive already made the walking beam system for the wheels. Also i want the trailer to be at least 6' long and about 34" wide. The trailer will also be carring other objects so I'll make some compartments and slots for it as soon as I figure this little hurdle.I know some guys are gonna say why not use a hand dolly but I want t take all my accessories from my trailer on one trip. I included some pics of the stand and the trailer.ThanksSlim Attached Images
Reply:1) what is the fuction of the control stand? (is that a hydrolic bullride?)2) what other objects do you plan to transport?3) overall weight of planned items once it's all said and done?4) is the plan to leave the control stand in the trailer at all times, or be able to put it in and take it out?5) what are the drawbacks of tipping the stand?Personally, I'd put wheels on the stand and call it good. Larger ridged mount ones on one side, and casters on the other.  that way you're not lifting the thing in and out of a trailer. If you want your accessories to go with it, either make an extended frame that is towable or make attachement points on the existing frame.I don't see the point of having the walking beam for this job. it's always going to be relitively low speed, and always in a place where the trailer can get into so there shouldn't be to many large logs to walk over.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:1. Yes, it's a hydraulic bull control stand2. I have the airbag (heavy and awkward to carry), blower, legs for bull (45lbs a piece), tools and some t-shirts and hats... So it's gonna be loaded sort to speak3. I figure about 600 including the stand4. The stand must be able to go wherever the bull goes so it needs to be mobile5. There's a breather hole on the giant oil tank that if tilted hydraulic fluid will leak outI didn't want to just put wheels on it because I never know what terrain I have to go thru from the trailer to the site. I usually use a hand dolly and it gets the job done but I would rather not tote it around by hand anymore. I also don't like taking three trips to my trailer espically when I'm parked around 200 yards from the job site. The only reason I made the walking beam system is so the trailer had some sort of give (suspension) so parts are not bouncing and flying around even at low speeds. Anyway it goes I need a trailer for the accessories but I figured I could throw the controls in there to. So if it's not going to work then I'm still stuck going back three times. One for the bull, two for the acc, the for the controls.
Reply:why not just build an extended frame on the control stand that can hold the accessories.  mount the walking beam to that? Personally, if I were to be pulling the trailer then I would build a second trailer for the bull and just do a train. 1 trip. If you build the extended frame that can hold the accessories, you can make it towable, and add a second hitch to the back end to allow for the bull trailer to be hitched in. If you've got limited space for turning, each trailer shouldn't be to hard to move by hand. Take a look at some yard carts that are out there, then use their front wheel steering design to make turning/hand manouvering easier.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thanks Thor.... I'm two steps ahead of you with the whole train thing. Look at the little system I made so far for the bull to be hitched to the trailer I'm trying to make. I know you've got the grand scheme for me so just spit it out
Reply:I like the idea of making the controls into a extended cart... How would I get the controls off of that? They need to be low enough for me to control the switches
Reply:Ok, so I slapped together something on sketch up that, I think with some minor fine tuning would work for all of your needs. The main frame of the wagon is 34"x6' with frame made out of 1.5" square tubing. the size of the materials was a guestimate of the size of the materials used for the control stand. Please note, I didn't go into to much detail as I did this after 1 am.I have attached some files for you to look at.The basic idea is the front caster and rear wheels are mounted on arms, that when un-pinned would pivot up to allow the frame of the wagon to sit flat on the ground. using leverage it shouldn't be to hard for one guy to raise and lower the "empty" wagon. the tall part is the control stand. I would have two removable side bars to help keep everything else on the wagon during transport and to allow the operator to unload easier, and walk/stand in/on/around the wagon while it's on the ground.The size of tire/caster will determine the overall dimensions as the front and rear pivot arms would need to be made to fit in order to assure that the deck gets fully lowered to the ground. (raising the pivot point above the bottom deck would help with leverage, but also minimize the amount the operator would need to lift the frame.)When I designed the pivot arms, my thought was to allow them to fold up and be tight to the wagon ends when in the fully upright position. Attached ImagesControl stand wagon..pdf (17.6 KB, 200 views)Control stand wagon 2.pdf (18.8 KB, 97 views)Control stand wagon 3.pdf (16.2 KB, 78 views)Control stand wagon 4.pdf (17.8 KB, 93 views)There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:However, I didn't look very closely at the second set of pictures you've posted. The rear wheels could easily be mounted in the same fashion as the ones shown. with a ball coming off the back for that to attach too.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerHowever, I didn't look very closely at the second set of pictures you've posted. The rear wheels could easily be mounted in the same fashion as the ones shown. with a ball coming off the back for that to attach too.
Reply:if you've got the ATV to pull it, I would keep the axle and use it for a true All terrain trailer. your other option would be to reverse the direction of the design shown and have the control stand at the back of the trailer. use the walking beam at the back of the trailer with a lift system like you've got for the bull, and just have a hitch and jack on the front. that way the trailer can still be lowered to the ground. and the majority of the weight is close to the axle.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Ahhhh ThorsHammer, you are definitely the man for this stuff. Thanks a lot. I think I'm going to try it with the second option you listed. It should be able to support that weight in the back with out flipping backwards with the way you described. I think this might just work.Now time to hit the garage
Reply:that and having the walking beam at the back, would help out supporting the weight of the second trailer.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I have everything ready to start the project. I'm still trying to picture in my head how the trailer is suppose to get low enough to roll the cart in... Maybe I missed something
Reply:the trailer and the cart would be one in the same. no need to roll anything in and out. just lower it to the ground for use/unloading.from the pictures of the bull set up, it appears that you've used a trailer jack to allow for the wheels to be taken on and off. use the say system on the back of the new trailer. the only difference, is instead of 2 wheels, it'll have 4 because you'll be mounting it onto the walking beam that you've already got built. this in turn will also have the ball hitch for the bull trailer system to hook too. The front will have a coupler, and trailer jack on it. the jack is just there to allow you to get the coupler high enough to couple the trailer to the ATV. I'll draw up a sketch tomorrow on paper to see if I can convey what I'm talking about.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:You definitely want to use the square jack assembly for the walking axle part. it will help reduce twisting slop in the lifting mechanism.who was I kidding, I'm not going to be able to get any sleep if I've got a project in my head.Here's how I would build it. I would build the cart part first. including the receivers for the walking beam system.then I would build the lifting mechanism with the walking beam placed behind the cart to allow for clearance. this way the drop for the lifting mechanism can be set with jack set at a certain level. you would want that level set at or close to the lowest point of the jack.weld everything together, then when you raise the jack, you also raise the cart. This allows you to have a sent point on the jack at which you will be able to couple the axle to the cart. assuming that your doing this on fairly level ground it should go right in without a lot of adjustment.of course you're going to have to figure out all dimensions for yourself as you go along, but this should give you a good idea of where to start.I did the double coupler on the back to help spread the offset load of the control stand. Just to attempt to prevent unnecessary torque on the frame if at all possible. Attached ImagesThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Damn Thor, I see the light now. That's a great design. It should definitely work... So basically if I have the bull connected to the rear hitch of the walking beam system the same time that the control cart is attached in the front , the walking beam should have no problem being level? I guess the safest way to build this is to have everything train connected before the control cart is elevated... Thanks Thor. How much do I owe you for your time and expertise?
Reply:if the walking beam is connected to  control stand cart/trailer, and the trailer is connected to the ATV, I don't see how it wouldn't ride level, yes, there would be torque on the connection for the walking beam system, but it would still ride mostly level. adding the bull on the back would just help to releave the torque. Just make sure you're using appropiately size materials to handle the load.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:I was thinking 1/8" 1.5 square tubing... I would think 3/16" would be an overkill and extra heavy
Reply:1/8" should be fine for the frame itself, but for the connection between the walking beam, and the cart/trailer the 3/16th is probably a better option because of the torque load that is going to be on it. Essentually it's like the receiver and hitch on your truck, most hitches are 3/16". Not because 1/8" material wouldn't pull the load, but because it wouldn't do very well with the 300-900 lbs of tungue weight bouncing on it. you're talking about have 600(ish) lbs suspended between two points. with the coupling between the walking beam and the trailer taking the majority of that load. Personally, I'd rather go the 3/16" on that coupling and never have to worry about it than go less and have the potential of it failing a couple years down the road.and you know it's going to fail in a place that's a couple hundred yards away from when the trailer can get when it does.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Don't forget to post pictures when its done.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Hey Thor, what do you think metal thickness the bottom frame should be made of? I keep getting mixed answers. some say 1/8" and some say 3/16". I'll use what I need to but would love to shave some weight off cause I have to make two of these setups. My poor Chevy is gonna hate lugging all this weight around....
Reply:I think you'll be fine with .12 wall. it'll hold 5.8 ksi =5800 lbs per square inch. which for your trailer would be 80.55 PSI(6' span).  and you're only looking at 3.84 psi for a 72"x32" deck holding 600 lbs.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Just make sure you're using gussets and proper welding and you'll be good.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:So, when are we going to get an update?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Lmao. Im going get back on it Sunday. I've been so busy for the last 2 weeks trying to get my business running smoothly I haven't done more than the walking beam system. I should be able to knock it all out Sunday. Thanks for the design and direction. Slimok, I've given you a month before buggin you again. where's the updates?There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerok, I've given you a month before buggin you again. where's the updates?
Reply:One more before I go off topic. Lol
Reply:My name is ThorsHammer and I approve of this message.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerMy name is ThorsHammer and I approve of this message.
Reply:what the heck man, I'm gone in Vegas all weekend hoping to come back and see some pics of the build. so disappointing.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger