SA 200 copper windings

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how do i tell if windings are copper, or what years are windings wound with copper
Reply:We'll require more info to be able to give you a reliable answer. We'll need a serial number to determine the year the machine was manufactured. A code number sometimes helps too. Basically if the generator is hexagonal the machine has aluminum windings unless it's been rewound.  Photos are always nice too, we like pics!!First post. Welcome to welding Web Forum. Click on "User CP" above and list where you are from. This helps in the long run on questions you might ask.Last edited by gizzardgutz; 01-03-2010 at 12:32 AM.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:Well, don't take my word for it, but it's been my belief that they quit putting copper windings in them sometime in the 80's.     I believe the change took place when the code number reached right around the mid 7000s.    I believe  all the ones I've seen w/ copper windings have the starter mounted below the centerline of the crank and armature shaft.    All the ones w/ aluminum windings I've encountered have the starter mounted above crank line axis.    Then I think they realized the non copper windings was not a good the way to go, then they made the Classic II, which came back w/ copper windings.   So to It's my belief around code # 7500 the change took place.     I was refraining from commenting on this because I'm not totally sure, but because of the lack of response, I figure my belief worth hearing.
Reply:Actually they began aluminum windings in the early '70s. As early as '72 for sure maybe before on select models. I have a '73 code # 7214 w/ aluminum windings, great machine, welds like a dream.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:Keep in mind too that the aluminum was limited to the shunt/field coils and the armatures remained copper.  The larger hexigon housings were to accommodate the added bulk of the aluminum required to equal that of copper windings.I have no idea what the comparison in failure rates between the aluminum and copper wound units are but there certainly are a lot of aluminum units out there making money every day and as gizzardgutz has attested (and many others) they weld just fine.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I was told that Lincoln uses copper windings in all of their machines and Miller uses alum. I know very little about the issue. It was told to me back maybe ten to twelve years ago by a guy who was just a weldor, not a rep or salesman. He said thats why the pipeliners use the lincoln because better arc. And everyone else uses Miller because of better built non pipe machines with more aux power. Any truth to any of it?BTW, I prefer Miller because of user friendly and cust service."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manI was told that Lincoln uses copper windings in all of their machines and Miller uses alum. I know very little about the issue. It was told to me back maybe ten to twelve years ago by a guy who was just a weldor, not a rep or salesman. He said thats why the pipeliners use the lincoln because better arc. And everyone else uses Miller because of better built non pipe machines with more aux power. Any truth to any of it?BTW, I prefer Miller because of user friendly and cust service.
Reply:absolutely! Lincoln power 100% I missed a test when I was 19 with a POS miller bobcat that was thrown in my lap that morning! not cool man.. I just like Lincoln...
Reply:I certainly hope you're not attempting to compare an SA-200 to a Bobcat but could it be a lack of experience was more to blame than the machine?  That is of course unless it wasn't running properly.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by gizzardgutzActually they began aluminum windings in the early '70s. As early as '72 for sure maybe before on select models. I have a '73 code # 7214 w/ aluminum windings, great machine, welds like a dream.
Reply:hi gentlemen,  this is my 2 cents worth,  I have 3 sa200 , 2 black face and one red face, that weld very much the same. The red face seems to do just a little better weld then the others. Not sure why.  I can say that some welding machines weld better than others in certain circumstances, just as some people weld better then the next guy. I've welded with ones I wouldn't take for free.  But, on the other hand , I've run machines that ran sweet. The great thing about these SA200s is they usually can be made to run a weld that is very nice. It may take a little tweeking to get it there. Find a good one keep it.  In the Lincoln manuals ( not sure witch one) they say to check the shunt coil to see if its grounded. Then they give the ohms reading for the copper and aluminum. I would suspect that checking the ohms of the coil would let you know weather it's copper or not. just my 2 cents worth.
Reply:Originally Posted by mhweldingI would suspect that checking the ohms of the coil would let you know weather it's copper or not. just my 2 cents worth.
Reply:There are two different sets of coils when talking about copper-vs.-aluminum.  The main shunt coils in the main generator and the exciter coils in the smaller exciter generator.Only the smaller exciter generator coils have different ohm values whereas the main coils are the same regardless if copper or aluminum.  All readings are +/-10%.Main generator shunt coils: 46ohmsExciter coilsCopper: 130ohmsAluminum: 167ohmsTo tell if an octagon barrel unit (originally aluminum) has been changed to copper main shunt coils without pulling it down, looking at the end of the windings, the aluminum wound coils will be tapered from the outside of the barrel to the inside toward the main armature making them slightly wider on the outside than inside.  Copper will be pretty much straight and about the same in dimension from outside to inside as the inner width of an aluminum coil.As has been stated in the past, one shouldn't just write off an octagon barrel machine as it may have been upgraded to copper at some point in its life as many have been.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:look, im not trying to beef with you about which machine is better, because there is no comparison. ive ben welding pipe and passing x-ray for over 17 years and at 36 years old I would say that's not to shabby. millers belong in a shop spitting wire out of them not on the line or building a gas plant under a b31.3 code, you can say what you want your entitled to your opinion that's just the way I see it and many others see that very same way. And to bee specific I knew how to weld pipe and pass x-ray perfectly fine the morning I took that test, I had never run that POS bobcat before and it didn't run anything like the lincolns I had experience running... so when the inspector seen me fighting to get it lit up on the bottom of my 6" test he called me out on an arc strike, wouldn't even shoot, wouldn't even let me file it off... sorry I have a bad taste in my mouth for miller, but to me that's justified, you can have them millers, if its blue I don't want a thing to do with it....1999 chevy 3500 6.5 diesel AFE intake, 4" diamond eye turbo back exhaust, Red D Arc 3+32000 chevy 3500 6.5 diesel s+b intake 4" diamond eye turbo back exhaust Lincoln 305g1996 chevy 3500 6.5 diesel Lincoln 305g2006 chevy 3500 6.6 duramax ppe programmer, 5" diamond eye turbo back exhaust s+b intake... just for fun. Yeah Boy.
Reply:Whoa there 77!!  I think you may have misunderstood the gist of my comment and I certainly wasn't questioning any current level of experience but come on now - comparing a rectified DC Bobcat to a pure DC SA-200?  They might both be able to burn rod but that's comparing apples to oranges.  That'd be like comparing my abilities to yours.I wasn't implying a Bobcat belongs anywhere near a pipeline and in fact it doesn't but I'd also be willing to wager after burning a couple pounds of rod on a Bobcat with your 17 years behind you that you'd be able to adapt and pull that same test off today.  You were 19 and spoiled by the finest DC machine ever built and then given a hobby/maintenance/farm machine to work with.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:GO LINCOLN!!!! F#@& the rest my man.
Reply:A good welder can pass X-ray with ANY welding machine regardless of its color. However, there are so many "rig welders" that show up to take a welding test with no jack stands, bottles, or beveling machines and want to take a test with their Briggs and Stratton welding machine that costs 1500-2k. Meanwhile the other guys have 15-20k invested in their tools because it is what is required to get the job done. Show up with a 15k pipe pro or a 15k classic 300d or even a 3000$ sa200 and let your ability decide your fate. Bobcats trailblazers and rangers all have their place but it's not running 60 hours a week for 60 years
Reply:Originally Posted by riflecoBobcats trailblazers and rangers all have their place but it's not running 60 hours a week for 60 years
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55On the rest, I lack the qualifications to say.