First TIG machine

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I wanted to get some opinions. I am new to welding but have enjoyed the research and time thus far I've put into it. I've done a little MIG welding before but nothing significant. I am looking to get a TIG welder because my primary interest is motorcycles, dirt bikes in particular. A lot of the parts are aluminum. Frames, sub frames, protection parts, cases, etc. so i thought it might be smart to buy a TIG over a mig + spool gun. I understand this will take much practice and its not something I can jump right into. Of course like everyone else I have lots of ambitious projects in my head, some steel some aluminum. I have several 220 outlets in my shop I can use but nothing above single phase. I would like to keep the price quite low (for a tig) since its my first machine, but i'm also looking for something to last me a decade.   What would you recommend? Need any more info?So far I was looking at the Hobart 165i/ Miller diversion 165. Would I need more than this??Thermal Arc 185 which I love because it is about the same $$ as the diversion but has ac balance control and some more features.But i have concerns when paying that much for something that it might be safer to go with an American machine.Help!!
Reply:I would look at the Thermal Arc and the Diversion 180 for new equipment.If you are not in a hurry, you can keep an eye on Craigslist or other used equipment site and probably find a quality used machine. Several guys on here, including me, found great deals on used Syncrowaves, but I looked for over a year. I am very happy with my 20 year old Sync.Good luck finding the right machine. If you want to do aluminum, it takes a lot of amps and you may want to consider a water cooled torch. Plan to spend a lot of hood time before you touch your bike.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:whats you budget?tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:It looks like you are new to tig welding. There is nothing simpler that the Diversion series from Miller. But the 165 is very limited though. If you were doing only thin sheet metal, it would be ok. I have put several Diversion 180s in schools and taught the instructor how to use it. It also can be plugged into housecurrent as well as 220volts. Again, the Diversion 180 is basically steel/alum. Everything is figured out for you .Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Cheaper the better of course but I might be ok with up to 1800ish -diversion 180 range
Reply:If you've got the power to run it, I found that like machine tools, the price on smaller units seems to be driven to insane levels (at least around here) due largely to the hobby demand.  You look at a 9" Southbend lathe, or a small Clousing mill (with MT taper!) and it will cost you WAY more than a larger more capable machine better features and condition.  I was casually looking at the 175-250 amp range for AC/DC CC machines for way over a year.  Yeah, I'm cheap, but what I found just wasn't even close.  I finally gave up and got a much bigger machine for way less than ever found the smaller machines.  In the end I have a Syncro 351 with multiple long leads, water cooler, nice cart, 2 argon bottles, and probably 50 lbs of filler rod of all sorts...Last edited by baddog; 10-31-2013 at 07:08 PM.
Reply:If you want a good basic TIG, without spending a lot of money, it is hard to beat a used Miller Syncrowave 180 or 200.  I have owned both, both are good.   Both have High Frequency, AC and DC, so you can weld any metal, including aluminum.  Both include stick and TIG.  The original version of the Syncrowave 180 is arguably better for beginners, as it has minimal controls, three switches and one knob, simple to use.  The  later version of the 180 (180SD) added an AC balance knob and digital displays.   The 200 has lots of bells and whistles, including pulse, which I like for thin copper.   The 180 is a little smaller, but both are relatively big and heavy, around 200 pounds.  Figure on at least a 50 amp 220V circuit for either welder, which is what I use.  Some recommend a 60 amp 220V breaker. I bought the 200 for $1300, too good a deal to pass up, and then sold my Synchrowave 180 for $1150.   The 180 price that I got was probably higher than average, and the 200 price that I paid was lower than average, so I did very well, paid only $150 to upgrade.Anyway, for somewhere between $900 and $1500, you can buy a used Syncrowave 180 or 200, and have a welder that will probably serve all your needs for decades.   If you buy used, and you decide you need a bigger or fancier welder down the road, you can get almost all your money back when you sell it.  You will take a big depreciation hit if you buy a new welder and sell it later.  With these Syncrowaves you can TIG weld any thin metal up to about 3/16 inch, and you can stick weld any steel 1/8 inch or thicker.   I used the 180 as a stick welder for months before I got around to buying an argon bottle.  Some report that the 180 had a higher than average repair rate, but my original version 180 gave me no trouble.I am not a big fan of the Miller Diversion because it lacks stick.  Stick is what you need to weld thick steel.   The Dynasty is a great welder, but way too much money unless you have to have easy portability, or need 110V.   (Note that a 20 amp 120Volt outlet will only run a welder at very reduced power, so 110V operation is not that great an advantage).    If you need portability, you could consider a Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC, maybe half the price of a Dynasty.  The Miller EconoTIG looks good on paper, but a Miller factory guy said that it was not that great, that the Syncrowave 180 was a much better machine.  Lincoln makes the Square Wave 175, and Precision TIG 225, similar to the Syncrowaves, look for a used Lincoln as a possible alternative.  The Thermal Arc 185 or 186 AC/DC are possible alternatives, inverter welders at reasonable prices.  Many if not most inverter welders are DC only, so you can’t TIG aluminum.  (Examples:  Multimatic 200, XMT series, Maxstar series, the new Thermal Arc multi-process welders, Lincoln V350 and C300, etc.)   The Chinese machines from Longevity and Everlast have an attractive price, but resale value, reliability, and support are concerns.Note that many inverter welders, such as the Dynasty or Invertec series, do not come standard with a TIG torch, regulator, and foot pedal, so they are even more expensive than they look at first glance.  The Syncrowaves come with everything you need except a gas bottle.  The welder manufacturers are pushing their high end inverter machines, but it is hard to justify the much higher cost, especially when you can find a used Syncrowave for not much more than $1000.  They have sold a lot of Syncrowaves, so you should be able to find a used one if you look.Just for comparison, a new Syncrowave 200 retails for $2900, a new Syncrowave 210 retails for 3200, a new Dynasty 200DX with torch, regulator, foot pedal, etc., retails for $5100.   On the used market, the Dynasty 200 welders are hard to find, and priced around $3000.   The Syncrowaves are easier to find used, and priced right.The Syncrowave 250 is an industry classic, a great machine, but big and heavy, and more expensive.  It should probably have a 100 amp 220V circuit, especially if you want to get full power out of it.  The 250 is just more welder than most folks need, unless you need to TIG 1/4 inch thick aluminum.   RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:I would probably look at an HTP221,  I think the HTP221 is going to be hard to beat for the money but I think they raised their prices earlier this year and a hair out of your budget/.. The Thermal Arc 186ac/dc is in your range, and they seem to be good mahcines, but they are a new design, so havent been proven. A good solid used machine, just get a good brand and try before you buy.. Miller Syncrowave 250 would be the first used machine I would look for if you have the input power, Miller 180sd is another, the Lincoln Squarewave 175 is another great little machine that has stood up well over time.. I've also seen Lincoln Precision Tig 225's on craiglist from time to time.Last edited by brucer; 10-31-2013 at 07:40 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Wow thanks for all the help!! I will continue to keep a eye on craigslist and check back here with some potential buys as I look into them! Leaning heavily now for a used syncro 180!
Reply:I was a first time welder and bought a diversion 180. I taught myself on that machine and love it. Just turn the knob and go. Sure pulse and other stuff is nice, but can't see i really miss it. I do a lot of stainless tubing and stuff and it works perfect for that. You definitely want the 180 over the 160. The 160 comes without the foot pedal. You definitely want the food pedal. You can buy the foot pedal for the 160, but then you pay pretty much the same price. I would also recommend switching out the cable and torch for something smaller, is a lot easier to weld when you don't drag a heavy cable and have a huge torch. I only do fairly thin stuff. I never go over 120 amps really.
Reply:buy an old Lincoln TIG machine like this and you will be able to handle any kind of job you run into http://www.ebay.com/itm/LINCOLN-TIG-...item3f2a0b8199dont buy one of those little new welders because you will regret it when they break down or wont handle any job bigger than fixing a lawnmower decki owned a small miller and after a few years of light use it started to change amperage while welding, it would drop off about 20 amps when i was stick weldingthe old Lincolns are heavy and tough
Reply:Originally Posted by SytzeI was a first time welder and bought a diversion 180. I taught myself on that machine and love it. Just turn the knob and go. Sure pulse and other stuff is nice, but can't see i really miss it. I do a lot of stainless tubing and stuff and it works perfect for that. You definitely want the 180 over the 160. The 160 comes without the foot pedal. You definitely want the food pedal. You can buy the foot pedal for the 160, but then you pay pretty much the same price. I would also recommend switching out the cable and torch for something smaller, is a lot easier to weld when you don't drag a heavy cable and have a huge torch. I only do fairly thin stuff. I never go over 120 amps really.
Reply:I have a low mileage(less then one bottle of argon through her) Lincoln 185 precision tig I should find a new home for. Especially since taking on a new Dynasty 280. Just not sure if shipping costs makes it worth while.
Reply:Ahh where are you located by chance? I'm in PA
Reply:I am in Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The machine is mounted on a cart and is good size. So it would be a truck freight item. Which I have no idea the cost of shipping.
Reply:Originally Posted by 900steveCompletely agree.  19 months ago I got a Diversion 180, and it did just about everything I asked it to.  I swapped out the cable and torch.  Miller's biggest fault with these machines are the cables, they really hold you back when you're trying to position yourself well.  I was looking at Syncrowaves, but they're so damn heavy!  I can pick up the Diversion and move it around, plop it on a bench or whatever.  The inverter machines are also more efficient.I just sold the Diversion 180 and moved to a Dynasty 200DX.  The Diversion holds its value so moving up wasn't so painful.  Plus, I knew from using the Diversion for more than a year what type of torches, hoses, regulators, foot pedals, and consumables that I would want to use.
Reply:Originally Posted by RolngthunI have a low mileage(less then one bottle of argon through her) Lincoln 185 precision tig I should find a new home for. Especially since taking on a new Dynasty 280. Just not sure if shipping costs makes it worth while.
Reply:It is running through a Coolmate 1.3. Just got it together last night. So no time on it yet.
Reply:Originally Posted by RolngthunIt is running through a Coolmate 1.3. Just got it together last night. So no time on it yet.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonSo it is the watercooled model with the 115volt plug on the back of the machine? None of those have hit my area, Rancho Cucomonga Distribution center yet.
Reply:Dump         Interesting to find you are in PA- sent you a PM you might want to check your inbox.
Reply:So finding a syncrowave hasn't been easy especially the 180/200. I found a guy with a tigwave 250. Thoughts on this machine? What a good price would be? And what year it may be from? I heard these are rebadged syncrowaves.Attachment 537281
Reply:If it works and is under $1000 I would jump on it..  Those are nice running machines a friend of mine down the road has one..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:For $1800 you should be able to get into a decent Syncrowave 250 if you bide your time...bulletproof machine and kicks a$$.If you've got the room and the power to feed it, a Miller 330 A/BP is also a bada$$ machine, and you can pick them up CHEAP.
Reply:You can expand your machine search on CL if you use Searchtempest. I usually use the search term "welder" and sort the list manually unless I'm looking for something specific.Do yourself a favor and update your profile at the very top right  of the page, to include your location so guys always know where you are located. A lot of guys here browse Cl regularly and often forward links to good deals when they see them if they know someone in that area is looking. They usually don't have time to try and dig thru threads to find out if you are in the area though. Having your location listed helps them help you..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganPrices here seem to be way high, or maybe it's everywhere now. Last guy was stuck at 1500 for the hobart. No luck so far. This one started at 3k! Told him I could get one new for 2850.http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/4223465500.html
Reply:You might want to look new then. Don't know if it matters, but an inverter tig with a 3 year warranty could be had for less than $2k. The killer deal seems to be the ThermalArc186. They are being discontinued and fed into the Tweco line. They will still have the warranty for any issues. The learning curve will be quite high though compared to a Miller Diversion, which is what I think you should aim for. My 2cents worth.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Go HereMarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by dumpPrices here seem to be way high, or maybe it's everywhere now. Last guy was stuck at 1500 for the hobart. No luck so far. This one started at 3k! Told him I could get one new for 2850.http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/4223465500.html