7018ac start problem solved!

admin

Some time back I posted a message about 7018ac rod being VERY hard to start. It would just stick like a magnet was pulling it down to the metal. Once I did finally get it going, it would do OK; I could weld a nice long bead with no problems. But starting it was just about impossible. This is an AC welder (Hobart Stickmater AC235), and I keep my rods in the red plastic tubes. I don't weld enough to justify an oven (not to mention the electric bill).One poster suggested I had a moisture problem, which made sense with these rods. No telling how long they had been on the shelf. The moisture makes it hard to start, then once it starts, the heat burns out the moisture and it does OK.  So I tried heating the tips of the rods with a propane torch before using them, just letting the top 1/2" or so glow red for a second, turning it evenly in the torch flame (at the end of the small blue inner flame). That completely burns out the moisture in the tip.  Then they're ready to use.Bingo!!!  The instant I hold the rod tip near the metal, pow! The "treated" rods start beautifully and instantly.  Every time.  Problem solved.
Reply:Which is why I only purchase 7018 in a can not a cardboard box. Heck, I don't even like the plastic paks they sometimes come in."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Thanks for the information, I have resisted trying 7018 because of the reported need for a rod oven.  You have added to my education.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Have you tried another brand of 7018ac rod?What brand are you working with now?If your keeping your rod in sealed tubes, I dont believe moisture is your problem.Yes, warmed or heated rods wil start better then cold rods.Quality rods will start and run better then cheaper rods.Experienced users will be able to start their arc much better then inexperienced users.A quality welding machine is also another factor.Your situation could be a combination of all the above.You may want to stick with 7014 with your ac machine.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:dont need to use a torch..turnthe amps down to 75 and intentionally stick the rod for a second..that will do thge same thing in terms of drying out, bearing in mind that the water is chemically bonded to the flux and needs to be dried at 700 degrees for 2 hours or whatever the mfr says..
Reply:A long time ago a young guy at work was wanting to learn how to weld. We let him practice in the shop in his spare time. He was having an awful time sticking his 7018, running on a DC machine. We decided to play a little joke on him, so we went to the First Aid office and got a little jar of ointment. We labelled it 'Welder's Grease', and told him to dip the tip of his rod and it would keep it from sticking. We were going to have a good laugh when it didn't work. Well, he dipped his first rod, chucked it in the stinger and it started flawlessly! He never stuck another rod and we never told him any different. After a few days of practice he put away his welder's grease, and eventually went on to get his structural welding certification!
Reply:Originally Posted by welds4dA long time ago a young guy at work was wanting to learn how to weld. We let him practice in the shop in his spare time. He was having an awful time sticking his 7018, running on a DC machine. We decided to play a little joke on him, so we went to the First Aid office and got a little jar of ointment. We labelled it 'Welder's Grease', and told him to dip the tip of his rod and it would keep it from sticking. We were going to have a good laugh when it didn't work. Well, he dipped his first rod, chucked it in the stinger and it started flawlessly! He never stuck another rod and we never told him any different. After a few days of practice he put away his welder's grease, and eventually went on to get his structural welding certification!
Reply:Welder's Grease!  That's awesome.Like Weldbead said, before you ever strike an arc stick the rod to the plate and let it cook for 3-4 sec, works for me at home.  Wouldn't recommend it for code or structural work but meets "Farm Code"
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeaddont need to use a torch..turnthe amps down to 75 and intentionally stick the rod for a second..that will do thge same thing in terms of drying out, bearing in mind that the water is chemically bonded to the flux and needs to be dried at 700 degrees for 2 hours or whatever the mfr says..
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeHave you tried another brand of 7018ac rod?What brand are you working with now?If your keeping your rod in sealed tubes, I dont believe moisture is your problem.Yes, warmed or heated rods wil start better then cold rods.Quality rods will start and run better then cheaper rods.Experienced users will be able to start their arc much better then inexperienced users.A quality welding machine is also another factor.Your situation could be a combination of all the above.You may want to stick with 7014 with your ac machine.
Reply:Ok am I the only one that is going to point out the problem with heating up wet rods enough to get them started? Seriously? There is a reason the mfg says to bake at 600 F for 8 hours. When you weld the water doesn't just burn off or evaporate. It breaks the hydrogen and oxygen apart and the hydrogen goes into solution with the steel. Causing hydrogen cracking. sometimes right down the center of the bead sometimes under the bead where you cant see it. You may get stuff stuck togather but you might as well use 6010 or something less afected by moisture. Wet rods also weld like crap compared to dry / new ones, especially out of postion.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:On jobs that don't require a ton of welding we stick to the little Lincoln 10lb tubes of 7018. Not  the best fix but they have a resealable cap. But we usually just use an oven for anything important.
Reply:Originally Posted by RuarkJust wanted to answer your questions.  I've tried 3 different brands: Lincoln, Hobart, and some unknown stuff from Autozone.  The tubes help with the moisture, but the issue is moisture contamination before I purchased it.  A box of Lincoln rods I bought actually had a layer of dust on it.  Yes, being warmed or heated helps, but these do fine even after they cool off.  I'm an inexperienced user. I have a quality welding machine. Why should I mess with 7014 when I can use 7018AC with no problems?
Reply:Well, I think the starting difficulties were due in part to my inexperience, and in part to contaminated rods. Admittedly, it's unlikely all three were contaminated to that degree. But putting the tips in the propane flame as I described did indeed create the exact result I described, even AFTER the rods had cooled off.  Pow, instant start, every time. I agree an industrial DC machine like some of you use would be nice, but at the same time I think it's a little over the top to give AC-only machines a blanket label of "poor quality."I try to stay with 7018AC because of its elastic strength and dependability, even though I'm just doing "farm code" welding.  I've damn near killed myself a couple of times trying to break a 7018AC joint with a 5-pound hammer.  It seems like every welder I know, pro and amateur, uses 7018/7018AC as his default goto rod.  I feel more comfortable using it for things like FEL chain hooks, or repairing ground engagement tractor implements.  (no trailers here, BTW...)6011 is too messy, and I understand it's more brittle than 7018AC.  I understand it's about the same with 7014, and it doesn't penetrate very well - I've personally never used it.Of course it seems logical for a beginner to start with an "easy" rod like 6011 or 7014, but it's just not my style. I prefer to start with the difficult path and master it. I do appreciate the replies!
Reply:You need to forget the idea that you need to use 7018 for farm work.  Especialy when you have an ac buz box and you are a newbie stick welder.7014 is nicknamed the farmers rod or jet rod due to the fact it is more easy to use.7014 has a tensile strength of 70 000 psi, the same as 7018. They are both fill freeze class rods and both all position and both have equal penitration. The difference between them is 7018 produces a low hydrogen weld deposit which is not a requirement for farm welding. Low hydrogen weld deposit is a requirement for code quality work like pressure vessel welding or pipe welding, neither of which you will be doing.If you want more penitration use 6011. 6011 is a fast freeze, deep penitration electrode which you can weld out of position very easy with your ac welder. 6011 has a tensile strength of 60 000 psi, it is not more brittle than 7018. Once you actualy use 6011, you will see how easy it is to use with an ac buzbox andt of position (any position other than flat). I dont use 6011, I prefer 6010 (The dc version of 6011). I can run 60 series rod and make a weld thats just as stong and will hold up just as well as 7018.The ida that you need to warm your rods with a propane torch to get them to fire is a bit "out there." Put the torch down and move on to another rod that will work better with your ac welder and your limited stick welding skills.Good luck.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeThey are both fill freeze class rods