Researching my first welder and need advice

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At this time I'm a bit budget tied and it appears that getting into metal working is a bit expensive.I'm looking for a small wire feed welder flux or/and mig, and have come across a couple Harbor Freight units. One is the flux only 90A (99871) and the other is the Dual (97503).After poking around on the internet and this website I'm more confused than when I started, and now have a bunch of questions.1) Is the "151" Mig (06271) welder the same as the Dual (97503)? It appears that the dual MIG 151 (06271) has been obsoleted, but appears to be really close to the Dual Mig (97503).2) Is it worth considering the HF units for mild steel up to 3/16" and down to body panels?3) What problems and mods should I anticipate running into?4) What other brands / models are good for starting out?Thanks,Gerald
Reply:Can't help with HF, but my little Lincoln, while "old" (circa 1996), is AWESOME! It's almost "dainty" in comparison to the 400A mig gun I try to manhandle every afternoon!  Can you say RSI? Not with the Lincoln. Check Craigslist often. Occassionally, there are very good deals there.It too has about a 90A limit, but that's fine for me as I don't do structural work outside school.Re your other issues, in my experience (not much admittedly), the drive mechanism holds many "issues" for you in any used (and sometimes not so used) unit you find. I had to improvise a new spool brake mechanism (better than the one Lincoln's engineers came up with) and to replace the drive rollers in mine before I could get consistent wire feed with no "jerkiness".XMT304 (school)SP125+ (home)HF 4x6 BandsawGood judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.
Reply:Look for a used name brand, you WILL be much happier. Used welders are on craiglist all the time, for about what a new POS harbor fright would cost. I sold a 10-12 year old miller 130, cart and mid size bottle for $275.Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Understand that even the most powerful  name brand 130-140 amp class 110v migs, top out at 1/8" thick steel under real world conditions, despite what the manufacturers lit might say. The smaller 90 amp FC only welders are too hot to do sheetmetal, and underpowered to do thicker stuff. They have a very narrow window of material they are suited for.That dual mig is simply an underpowered 220v mig, since it only has 120 amp output. You get all the down sides of both types and none of the benifits. You  have the limited potability of 220v machine, and the lower output of a 110v machine. Add to that the spotty QC issues that tend to plauge the HF machines. Erratic wire feed issues are quite common and difficult for newer welders to compensate for.If you are going to go with a 220v machine ( best choice over all), you want to go with a decent 180 amp or better name brand machine. These will let you do 1/4"-3/8" with no issues and do sheet metal with gas. On a buget, look at the Hobarts, or as many have suggested look for a nice lightly used machine from CL..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the advice. I'm shying away from the HF welders in hopes of enjoying learning to weld.Looking at some of the name brands, I found a source for reconditioned Hobart 125 for $230 shipped. Is this a good model?
Reply:You need to remember that you are going to need a gas bottle and gas,  I just filled 3 bottles that I own today 2x 40 CF and 1x 80CF which cost $131 for the gas.   the bottles in that size are about 125-200 for the bottle purchase.  Hence you are looking at an extra $200 to $250 for a mig setup once you buy the welder.    there are lots of deals used but new or used you need at  a $500-$1000 budget.  don't forget all your protective gear too.    Going used if you are patient and know what to look for, deals can be found.   The Chicom machines such as those of the site sponsors are another option.  Stick welders can get u up and running much cheaper and can even move you into DC tig pretty cheap if you get the right machine.  Just as an example  Everlast 140 ST can give u dual voltage in, and all u need to add tig is a regulator and tank of gas..  1/16 E6013 stick rod as well as DC TIG can do your thin material and Stick at 140 amps can get u doing single pass 1/4 steel.  The downside is there is more of a learning curve an lots more practice needed for these welding processes.  also be sure you have adequate power supply.  If your power is a 30 amp or less 230v then definitely look at Inverter based,   many deals out there for old transformer based machines   but for the same amperage you can expect to double the amout of power required.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:The HH125 is underpowered to do the heavier steel you suggested at 1st, but it's a decent machine. Be sure that it's the HH125 and not the HH125EZ however. The EZ machine is flux core only and doesn't allow you to add the gas cylinder later. You will need the gas option to do sheetmetal. The HH140 would be a better choice if you must to go with a 110v machine rather than the HH125 because you have more output to work with. The HH 190 would be a better option as it's 230v and will easily do 1/4" steel and even 1/8" alum with a spoolgun in the future. It's more expensive in the short term, but will save you money in the long run because you won't have to upgrade later to a 230v machine when you quickly out grow the 110v machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Just remember that there are some situations where you won't be able to do what you want on a certain budget; it's not as if there is something out there for EVERY budget.  I only point this out because if there was a MIG welder that would handle 1/2" for $200.00 and last for decades, dependable, and did a great job; everyone would buy that one; but there isn't and they don't.  Better to find a good, solid welder that does what you want and save up for it.MIG's are expensive, not only inital cost, but gas bottles, gas, tips, etc.  You may want to consider a stick welder to start with.  The small ones can be had pretty cheap.I'd just flat stay away from the 110V machines unless you only want to weld sheet metal or other small stuff.Good luck.Lincoln Pro Mig 180Everlast PowerARC 200
Reply:agree with stevenstilts,  if you need 110vac then get a dual voltage machine that can do 110 or 220 .  110 only machines are only good for sheet metal up to about 10gaPS, see my post in your introduction thread..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:i would seriously look at the thermal arc 181i mig/tig/stick, this is probably one of the most versatile machines that i've seen on the market, its 220v only though..next up would be the lincoln 180c dual....tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Another option would  be the Northern Tools "Northern Industrial Mig/Stick 200 Welder".  It is a combo 200amp mig and 140amp stick welder that runs off of 230volts.  Capable of mig, flux core and stick welding.  I think there is also a version that can be had including a spool gun for running aluminum wire.  Do a search under welding on their website-Northern Tools.com.  Good luck on your choice.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:I recently started on welding as a hobbyist on a limited budget. I got a welder from Eastwood.http://www.eastwood.com/175-amp-mig-...spool-gun.html(Actually, bought it on ebay. FREE SHIPPING!!!!!!)Got a 60cf tank around $110 on ebay and a $40 auto darkening helmet from Harbor Freight. Local airgas fills the tank for $53 and I am on my third cylinder now.I really like the welder. While I don't have any real experience with other welders, this one seems like well made. Haven't used the spool gun yet.I also did a ton of online research before I bought the welder and the helmet, specially the welder.I spent roughly about $750 initially and really happy with my investment.If you buy a cylinder, make sure you get some kind of proof of ownership. Some gas suppliers want to see it before they fill it.Last edited by karu; 09-16-2011 at 08:40 AM.
Reply:I have read quite a few negative experiences with the newer eastwood stuff.   A search here should turn. Some up..Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI have read quite a few negative experiences with the newer eastwood stuff.   A search here should turn. Some up..
Reply:WOW that is a lot of information. I can see that this new found "want to try" is really something I need to consider spending close to a $1000 for a setup.I'm lucky that my garage has a 220V 50A outlet. So I'm leaning towards a 220Vac unit, but could be swayed to a good used Hobart 140 or 125 if the price is right.Sadly to say looking at C-list in my area it seems that welders hold their value, and the low priced name brand used units look beat to death. What are other good sources for used welders?The support/safety equipment is also an unknown to me. But so far I have the following on my list.1) Helmet, maybe a HF auto darkening? Read some good reviews?2) Gloves3) What else am I missing
Reply:Originally Posted by gmebey3) What else am I missing
Reply:Consider used.Refurbished.Have patience, dealer specials.
Reply:Ok after some research I'm leaning towards either the Hobart 190, Lincoln 180C or Thermal Arc 181i.The Thermal Arc is really appealing because of the TIG/Arc feature and the optional TIG torch and  Spooler Gun is much cheaper than then other brands.Is this over kill for a first time welder? Am I nuts?
Reply:either of the 3 should serve you well.I've had a 180c for about 6 months now.  It works great.I even had a 1000# bull knock it, along with my cart, & my tank (thankfully capped...) across the corral last week.  The only thing that stopped it was my truck.  The machine still works fine.  Dented my damn truck though.When that sucker goes to the slaughterhouse, he dies first!BTW that size machine is great for a starter, gives you a little room to grow.110V units are good for fenders, that's about it.Last edited by WeldingMachine; 09-23-2011 at 06:36 AM.Reason: addBuy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:WeldingMachine,Sorry to hear that future steaks and hamburgers left a mark on your truck. I have an old 69 chevy that I'm working on...hence the welder. To be honest I'm more of woodworker, and really suck at welding.Gerald
Reply:Originally Posted by gmebeyWeldingMachine,Sorry to hear that future steaks and hamburgers left a mark on your truck. I have an old 69 chevy that I'm working on...hence the welder. To be honest I'm more of woodworker, and really suck at welding.Gerald
Reply:ummm.... I know everything these guys are saying is technically true.... but what are you planning to weld really? I have alot of respect for the opinions here, but IMO if you can get a hobart handler 125 IMO, I would get that, work wih flux, graduate to the bottle as money allows, and when you hit the wall of I don't have enough welder, upgrade to something bigger because you will then know what you like and don't like and will know infinitely more about what your buying and your needs. I am not saying that anyone here is wrong to suggest more, but, you can weld ALOT of small projects with 120volt welders and even some big ones as long as you go with bigger dimensional size and keep the metal thickness reasonable. I got my whole setup gas bottles and all from a guy who spent 500+ bucks on it and used it twice and then let it sit till he traded it to me at a 425+ dollar loss (yeah he was dumb)do you have any welding experience? you can drop a grand on this thing if you want, and I would avoid the HF 90amp like the plague, I had one, it sucked at everything and it was a pain for a first welder.what are you going to be welding mostly? I haven't seen a post by the OP saying what he wants to weld just that he wants a welder and has a truck project. body work, get the hobart and get the gas etc. if you wana do frames and suspension you need the bigger ones.. most days I would kill to have a bigger welder but I do zero body work on my buggy aside from welding on nuts to hold on sheetmetal and beating the dents out of areas where I sit when they occur, that said I have a stick welder for bigger metal and if I got a bigger one, it would be flux and I would change the 90amp back to gas for thin stuff with tiny wire and just never have to fiddle with the liners unless they wear out. my point is, small welders have their place, body work mostly with gas. if you want to go bigger later you can just pop the bottle between them, run flux, or get a second tank. having a welder I can carry by myself is nice. you need to listen to these guys they are great welders and have alot of knowledge but if your not going to weld for a living it needs to be kept in perspective and buy what you can deal with and what can do what you have planned.I kind of look at welding like some people look at bicycles, if your going to buy one, go look at some of several types, the one that you look at and makes you want to use it is a good start. we all have our dream machine, find the one you like in your budget and accept its limitations and most importantly get out there and weld ;-)  good luck and enjoy your welder, whichever you choose!Hobart Handler 190 Century 90amp on FluxCraftsman 200amp buzzbox
Reply:Ryf, what you say is true to a certain point. If you buy a machine and dump it, then any cheap machine would work. The problem comes when someone gets the small machine and really enjoys this. They try and use the machine well beyond it's capacity for a while, then realize the reality and end up spending more in the long run for the machine they should have gotten in the 1st place.If someone wants to see if welding is for them, best choice would be to enroll in a decent night class at a local tech school. For about the cost of that cheap machine, they'll have access to better ( usually industrial quality) machines, material, wire, electric, gas, as well as instruction in how to do this correctly right from the start. Armed with this knowledge that person can then begin their search for a machine if they feel this is for them. True they won't have a machine to sell, but chances are if they only were going to use it once or twice, they could have pulled the plug on the 1st night of class and gotten their money back anyways ( and probably come out farther ahead than if they sold the machine). I strongly feel that a class is a great idea for anyone looking to learn. I've run a lathe once or twice in the past a friend had, but this term I'm taking a basic machining class to learn the ins and outs prior to looking at buying my own lathe. I see that $400 "expense" as a good investment towards not making a bigger mistake that will cost me when I go to shell out the money on a machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:in the first post the op states a capacity of 3/16, this leads me to several machines..  the most versatile would be the thermal arc 181i, next i would go with the lincoln 180c dual (or regular 180c) as he also said body panels, the fine tuning capability of the lincoln would be better suited for this, i also own a 180c and its a nice little mig welder..  next i would consider the hobart for price alone.... honestly after learning what i know from past experience, when it comes to a welder i feel as big as you can get the better and 220v is a must.. i mainly mess around with hotrods/streetrods.  i use to backhalf and put cages in cars and trucks, i wouldnt use anything less than a 180amp welder, and i would prefer 200 or 210 amps...   i would still be pointing at the thermal arc 181i with the tig option because of the versatility..  even if it doesnt come with the tig torch and pedal, to me it would save alot of money in the future when you want to start dc tig welding, would also save space if space is limited.. I have to throw the millermatic 180 in the mix also..Last edited by brucer; 09-24-2011 at 07:27 AM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:If you like the idea of aluminum welding, I'll second this option:http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5145_200485145There is a typo in the description. Rated Duty cycle is 30% at 160 amps. You'll probably find the stick feature pretty handy. This Hobart is a nice option too. USA quality but no stick, more money and less duty cycle: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...2227_200482227Aluminum will require another bottle for argon. I like CO2 for steel mig because you get 4x the gas since it's in liquid form which saves $$. I use this regulator for CO2:http://www.harborfreight.com/regulator-gauge-94841.htmlLincoln SA200, HH135, Lencospot, HF80 Inverter, Rockwell 11x35 lathe, HF drill mill, Kama 554 tractor w/ FEL & BH, Belarus 250AS, lot's of Chinese toolsThanks for all the advice.I need to point out that my personal preference is not to have to buy a tool twice just to save a few bucks. Once I realized that 220Vac was a strong requirement the entry price jumped to $500 and up, thus leading to the delima......for bit more I could get a lot of performance.Now to be totally honest I'm more of a woodworker, and have learn the hard way in sitting up my home shop that saving a few bucks by buying lesser macines ends up costing more in the end.So why is a woodworker buying a welder....simple, I end up paying a lot for small welding jobs and now have a project truck to replace the old one that was stolen. Plus need to make a bandsaw stand, and spending $200 to have it done bothers me. I would rather invest in the tools!
Reply:Sounds like you have some interesting projects planned. Can't wait to see them.A few things to keep in mind. Woodworking and welding don't play well together. If you plan to weld and do woodworking in the same shop, you'll need to be anal about clean up. Sparks travel a LONG ways and get into places you'd never expect. Open shelves covered in a fine powdery sawdust from finishing and sanding and planer chips are just tinder waiting for a spark. I'd strongly suggest enclosed storage to limit dust accumulation and prevent sparks and spatter from getting behind things. A good sweep up followed by running a leaf blower to remove as much dust as possible when done wood working will help. Keep a couple fire extingushers on hand and make it a mandatory exercise to have a minimum 1/2 hour clean up / fire watch every time you weld. A small stray hot BB will sit and smolder for quite a while before things go south fast.Common sense goes a long way with this sort of thing. If you pay attention to details, keep a clean shop and follow some basic safety rules all the time, you'll have no issues..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by brucerin the first post the op states a capacity of 3/16, this leads me to several machines..  the most versatile would be the thermal arc 181i, next i would go with the lincoln 180c dual (or regular 180c) as he also said body panels, the fine tuning capability of the lincoln would be better suited for this, i also own a 180c and its a nice little mig welder..  next i would consider the hobart for price alone.... honestly after learning what i know from past experience, when it comes to a welder i feel as big as you can get the better and 220v is a must.. i mainly mess around with hotrods/streetrods.  i use to backhalf and put cages in cars and trucks, i wouldnt use anything less than a 180amp welder, and i would prefer 200 or 210 amps...   i would still be pointing at the thermal arc 181i with the tig option because of the versatility..  even if it doesnt come with the tig torch and pedal, to me it would save alot of money in the future when you want to start dc tig welding, would also save space if space is limited.. I have to throw the millermatic 180 in the mix also..
Reply:DSW,Goog point, but I'm fully aware the risk with wood dust and sparks. When I sharpen/grinde my turning gouges I worry. In fact I have 2 20 pound fire extinguisher in the shop just in case.My plan is to use the rocked area to the side of my garage just to be safe.  Maybe even hose it down prior or after welding. My first project will be to build a simple welding table that can remain on the rocked area. Oh just for the record we have a 6th privacy fence that I will be working behind. This should shield neighbors and passer bus from the arc. Right?
Reply:Should be fine. The only down side of using mig outside, is that on windy days the breeze will blow away your shielding gas if you use gas and solid wire. You might have enough of a wind break already. It's not an insurmountable problem.  I have no choice but to weld outside because the garage is so packed at the house and get by fine using a wind break 95 % of the time. You can also use FC wire outside with no issues, but it's messier and not good for sheetmetal.You will need to build a 220v extension cord  to extend the cord from the plug inside, or make sure your outlet is in a exterior rated box..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XThe Hobarts run wire down low excellent. Don't discount the welding engineers at Hobart. Darrel know how to get a excellent arc out of a Hobart machines. I like it better overall then the Lincoln 180c machine. Better top end too. The Thermal is still pretty new ,but probably ok in reliabilty. Can't argue with the value, but the Hobart will not take a back seat in the area of arc quality. Better then many machines costing 3 times as much.
Reply:Originally Posted by brucercorrect, I also like the hobarts, i would love to have an ironman 230.. i might have worded wrong or something...  the 3 machines i listed the thermal arc 181i, lincoln 180c and the hobart 190 will more than likely run neck and neck... i own a 180c myself along with a thermal arc pro-wave 185 and the thermal arc quality has me impressed enough that i would choose the 181i over the others...  its price point and versatility seem to stand out from the others as well.. it seems like alot of bang for the buck in one unit...  yes its a new model machine, so it is untested by the masses, but it is also from a quality manufacturer..    i've even tossed around the idea of selling my 180c and pro-wave 185 and buying a 181i, i dont use ac tig much, so it would free up some space and also a little cash for another project.. i'm afraid as soon as i would sell my pro-wave i would need it though..
Reply:I started with a HF model flux core because I found one on sale for $110, I used it because I was a stick welder and wanted a cheap introduction to wire feed.  When that one burned out I bought a Hobart Handler and a 40cf bottle togeather for less than $450.  With grinding of a V I could weld up to 1/2" by taking my time, however the 20-30 % duty cycle at the amps I needed did me in.  It only lasted 4 years until it burned out the circuit board.  The board was going to cast more than I had paid for welder and bottle.  At that point I bought a 220v Hobart Ironman, have been using it for 9 years for everything from 14 guage metal up to making a loader mount out of 1" plate to put a quick attach loader on a John Deere tractor.  At the time I bought what I could afford to see how much I would use it.