which one is stronger

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I was wondering out of hollow pipe, square tube and flat stock which one is the strongest.
Reply:What are the dimensions...?and how will the force be applied...?Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:If they were all the same weight per foot they all would have different qualities. The round would usally be strongest in compression ,the flat would be stronger against bending against the wide section, and the square against twist. The variables are what really need to be considered, thickness,diameter, span and on and on. Its like X plus Y times ? equals ? .Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:I wonder this too. in terms of deflection.for example: 2" pipe has a wall thickness of about 3/16". compare that to 2x2x3/16" square tube and see which one bounces more when carried on your shoulder per 20' lol.  I vote square tube but I haven't even tried my own experiment so I could be wayyyyyy wrong.in terms of strength per weight, look around and the answer becomes obvious. racecars and such "spare no expense" things are usually built with round, tubular structures where it counts. . . . .remember those vw commercials from a few years ago, "round for a reason."bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:zachary80Compression or tension, and what is: the load and lateral?Opus
Reply:I am building a go cart so I am probably looking for less compression for a crash
Reply:Round tube is equal in strength and stiffness in all directions (radially).  It is the best for torsion and probably axial compression. Square tube can be stiffer and quite a bit stronger, but only in two directions."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by zachary80I am building a go cart so I am probably looking for less compression for a crash
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DIf they were all the same weight per foot they all would have different qualities. The round would usally be strongest in compression ,the flat would be stronger against bending against the wide section, and the square against twist. The variables are what really need to be considered, thickness,diameter, span and on and on. Its like X plus Y times ? equals ? .
Reply:the options i have at the moment are square tube (25mm,25mm,1.6m) or round tube (25.6mm,1.3mm) what one would you useKeep in mind that square tube is $45 for 3 metres and round tube is $25 for 3 metresLast edited by zachary80; 01-01-2014 at 05:48 PM.
Reply:The square is going to be stiffer and require more force to cause it to buckle.  I don't know how big the radius is on the square, but if it had no radius it would be 86% stiffer than the round and weight about 10% less per meter.  It probably has radius inside and out and weights a little less and has a little less of a stiffness advantage.The square may also be easier to work with, unless you have access to a tube notcher.  You could come up with a design to make either tube work, so if notching round doesn't scare you go ahead and use the less expensive material.
Reply:sorry i meant (25mm,25mm,1.6mm) for the square tube and i found some square tube for $16 per 2 metres on the bunnings website but it is the only steel that is cheap and non galv. Does any one know somewhere they sell pure steel instead of painted or galv in the hornsby area
Reply:Also what welder should i weld 1.6mm square tube with a stick (40-130amps) or a flux cored machine with only 2 amp settings (min=60 amps max=130 amps)
Reply:http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...0/index1a.html 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:If you have to ask it makes me wonder if you are qualified for said project. --Gol'
Reply:i know what i would use but i was just double checking i want to get a new 3 in 1 machine which will let me choose amperage
Reply:I would not choose the type or size of tube for a gocart frame without taking frame design into consideration. A fully triangulated frame can get away with using pretty small stuff since it should only load the tubes in the frame more or less straight in compression or tension, the directions tubing is most rigid in. You need much beefier tubes to resist bending in a frame designed to use the tubes rigidity in other directions.Experiment: Go get some steel wire, preferably somewhere around 1-2mm thick (0.040-0.080") or a little more. TIG/oxyacetylene welding wire will be perfect. Also get a soldering iron and some solder.Bend a piece of wire into a square, say 10x10 to 15x15cm (4x4 to 6x6"). Solder the wire ends together.Grab two diagonally opposing corners, gently pull them away from each other and push them towards each other. Notice how little force you need to pull/push it out of shape?Now add two more pieces of wire as a X between the corners in the square. Ofcourse, solder the ends to the square.Again, grab two corners and pull/push. Notice how much more rigid it has become from just adding those pretty weak wires? Imagine how much thicker wire you would have to make the square out of to get the same rigidity without the crossbracing. A simple experiment to make it rather obvious how important frame design is. Especially when you are building something that needs to be light weight.
Reply:Ok thank you
Reply:Originally Posted by zachary80I am building a go cart so I am probably looking for less compression for a crash
Reply:In the case i do use round tube how would you notch a tube without a tube notcher
Reply:@ zachary - old skool via a template and a grinder.  See http://metalgeek.com/static/cope_old.pcgi for template downloads."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Thanks that helped a lot
Reply:What diameter do you think wold be bestLast edited by zachary80; 01-03-2014 at 06:26 AM.
Reply:Some pics of a cart I did with a cousin a while back. It eventually ended up with a 100 hp 580cc arctic cat efi engine in it. It is all 1 1/4x1 1/4 x 1/8" and 1x1x1/8" tube. My cousin ended up with it and I think he still has it, I could get the specs from him if you want them. Attached Images
Reply:Miller 252Miller Bobcat 225Lincoln MigPak 1801959 Hyster forkliftHarris OA torchif you could that would be great although mine will me 197cc max 6.5 hp
Reply:Aaaaaa
Reply:What? You don't want to do 100+ mph? lol The original engine was a 440 arctic cat fan cooled engine with about 40 hp and it would do 100 mph. I don't think anyone ever got to the top with the 580 in it. I know I couldn't do top with the 440. lol I will send cuz a msg and see if he can send me the measurements.
Reply:Ok, got with cuz, he's on vaca right now  but when he gets home he will see what he can come up with as far as a plan. It's actually at a friend of his' house getting another new motor. lol He alway could find a way to blow an engine.
Reply:Lol when you were driving it on ice did you get it bogged alot
Reply:I built one on a Margay frame with an H2 Kawi once. Used a Schwinn Spider bike "super shifter" with the clutch lever and aircraft linkage rigged to it.0-100 there wasn't a street rod that could touch it. It ate big block Camaros-Novas and 440/6 Cudas for lunch.It actually ate the motorcycles that the engine came off of ! The back of my helmet would be soaked from the tears forced out under acceleration.I want to build a Hyabusa one now. Nitrous of course !Nah. Better focus on a nice wheel chair with a cup holder.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Is that safe
Reply:Originally Posted by zachary80Is that safe
Reply:What do you mean
Reply:Originally Posted by zachary80What do you mean
Reply:I'd side w/ Oldendums answer.   figuring dia. and wall thickness were equal on all.   If the direction of force isn't known, the round would be better.   If direction is known then, square.
Reply:When someone puts a v8 in a go kart I will be impressed
Reply:Eight twostroke cylinders in V-formation, is that what you were talking about?
Reply:Did you know that 95%  of all airboat cages are made entirely of brazed EMT ? Bobby Housemen set an 1/4 mile record  on a Yamaha RD400 drag bike made entirely of brazed 3/4 EMT.11.90 secondsFood for thought. You don't have much hp there. That'd be a 35-40 mph tops in blowup mode(wired governor)Think ladder while designing.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by G-sonEight twostroke cylinders in V-formation, is that what you were talking about?
Reply:Do you know how much cc per engine
Reply:Nope. Found the picture online.
Reply:I'd draw it out find out what angles you are going to have, how you are going to miter them, and the decide if it should be round or square. My money's on square or rectangle.Swanny
Reply:8 chain saw motors it must go pritty fast *** long as they all go at the same speed at the same time
Reply:there are going to be lots of 90 degrees angles
Reply:whoops i wrote *** instead of as